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Thread: HRC handler question for hunt test

  1. #11

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    Pat after I saw how much he pulled during the field test I knew it would be too dangerous for the water test. The family had a great time and we met a lot of new people so outside of the dog messing up it was a great weekend. I had really high expectations for him and I'm kind of at an impass. There are not a lot of people that train regularly near me so I'm kind of in limbo. I can work on OB again but it's really hard to simulate the real thing.

  2. #12
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    This handler question is a point where AKC and HRC differ, and many people get confused. in AKC you can list alternate handlers on the entry form. In HRC only one handler is allowed. My club's hunt secretary explained it to me. Records are kept for each dog that enters a test and whether they pass. When someone applies to be a judge they have to have proof they handled a dog to a pass in the level they are applying to judge. If the slips listed multiple handlers, you would never know after the fact WHO actually handled that dog to that pass.

  3. #13

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    I spoke with the HRC judge and she told me I could list my daughter as the handler but they would allow her walk with me up to the test which was close enough and accomplished what I was hoping to get out of it. My dog was too hyper so it would not have been a good move on my part to switch . I did see a 10 yr old girl run her lab and she did great but my plans changed when I saw how excited he got from the start so I kept my name on as handler. I think we will go again next year it's hard to beat a great family event for the price of the test

  4. #14
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    Sounds like you made the right decision re your daughter. Most young handlers run an already highly titled dog, in the started level as a junior handler. That way the dog is on auto pilot and the kid gets the experience without trying to deal with a dog they can't really manage. Often an older retired dog that couldn't physically complete a higher level test will enjoy it as much as the kid to be back in the game a bit. We have a young boy in our club that runs his own dogs in higher level stakes, but his family owns a kennel and the family business is dog training, so he has grown up doing this all his life. If you make it fun and not stressful, your daughter will be more likely to continue to want to participate. Good luck, finding a training group sounds like a plan. Even a club that has a monthly training day is better than nothing. I belong to 2 such clubs to get my group experience in.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigershark View Post
    just wanted to give an update, my dog went a little nuts at the hunt test I now believe I have what everyone refers to a firebreather. It is amazing how quickly they can go from training to just about losing his mind during testing. I purposely trained for a couple of weeks without the collar and never a break or no issues with heeling or sit or anything. Get to the test and he is ready to go, was going to do it off lead but wasn't happening he was ready to go, he settled down a lot for the land marks, I took him off lead, my daughter at my side and didn't really have to hold on to him he did fine marked both birds delivered to hand, judges made a comment he isn't lacking any drive. I think he left the line faster and kicked up more dirt that any other dog there. I was pretty mad that he pulled on the lead on the way up. Had my wife not been nagging me the entire morning about wanting to watch him I would of scratched him because I didn't feel he deserved the opportunity to make a retrieve given the way he walked to the line. We sat around almost 5 hours until the water test started. he was worse with it, he practically dragged me to the line I wish I could have used the heeling stick to correct him . There wasn't enough room for my daughter to be by my side at the water but she did get close enough to watch. during the land test I made him sit for 10 seconds or so before releasing him, for the water marks that was the plan but he broke my standards about 5 seconds in on the first retrieve brought it back again I wasn't going for a title just trying to appease my wife and daughter if I were there by myself I would have scratched him, the second duck hit the water and I'm sure the judges were wondering if I was ever planning on releasing him I eventually did and he passed but I left mad at him. My wife and daughter had an absolute blast meeting people and seeing all the dogs, I left with a lot of questions of what to do next. he is 2.5 now is the best family dog we have ever had, the best inside dog we have ever owned but he isn't cutting it as a hunting dog. Man its frustrating how many hours of training I have in him only for him to act like that. He has too much drive, I haven't figured a way to dial him back so I am left scratching my head wondering what to do next. He demonstrated the same behavior when I took him dove hunting the only difference is I was able to correct him with the heeling stick and collar but he is still jacked up whenever he knows we are hunting. I can throw birds all day long and he is excited but it is 10 times more exciting when it is the real deal for him. what to do next is the big question going through my mind
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigershark View Post
    Pat after I saw how much he pulled during the field test I knew it would be too dangerous for the water test. The family had a great time and we met a lot of new people so outside of the dog messing up it was a great weekend. I had really high expectations for him and I'm kind of at an impass. There are not a lot of people that train regularly near me so I'm kind of in limbo. I can work on OB again but it's really hard to simulate the real thing.
    IT'S NOT THE DAWG!!!
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  6. #16
    Member Chuck Wagner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlaineT View Post
    Don't know the official rules on it but I was handling a dog for a friend that is wheel chair bound in a test last fall. I ran the dog that morning and he showed up that afternoon and we asked if he could run the dog that afternoon. We were told no...and that the person that handled the dog in the morning series had to in the afternoon as well.

    My opinion (which holds very little water) is- who cares who handles the dog. We're testing the dog.
    In HRC, the handler passing a test at a given level is also tied to the pre-requisites for eventually being a judge at that level...so the handler is kinda being tested as well. I agree that it should be about the dog, but I also think that those judging should at least have had to pass a test themselves. If we are splitting handlers, how could that requirement be tracked? Which handler gets credit? If neither of them do, then that is yet another level of record keeping for the organization.

    I'm all about getting kids involved in the sport. My son has been training with me since he was 5 years old (now 11) and he runs the dogs at Started tests...but he runs both series.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Wagner View Post
    In HRC, the handler passing a test at a given level is also tied to the pre-requisites for eventually being a judge at that level...so the handler is kinda being tested as well. I agree that it should be about the dog, but I also think that those judging should at least have had to pass a test themselves. If we are splitting handlers, how could that requirement be tracked? Which handler gets credit? If neither of them do, then that is yet another level of record keeping for the organization.

    I'm all about getting kids involved in the sport. My son has been training with me since he was 5 years old (now 11) and he runs the dogs at Started tests...but he runs both series.

    yeah i get that side of it. i guess i would just say- in those instances neither handler is going to get credit for that run if in the future they wanted judging credentials but no reason to pile on anymore paperwork and/or administration work for the HRC.

  8. #18

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    I'm 15 years removed from the Hunt test scene and when I did I ran AKC tests. I have to say it was all about the dogs with the Started. They really want to dogs to succeed, why else would you be allow to walk them on lead, hold their collar etc. I personally think it is a great introduction into the Hunt tests. I vaguely remember some old tests and they always seemed to be a little stressful, I don't know what my dog's future holds as far as hunt tests goes but will say the started tests would be a great introduction into the game. Talent wise my dog is capable of running higher if I can find a way to settle him down. He has the skills and knowledge now bringing them altogether is my job and that's the struggle.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogluvah View Post
    This handler question is a point where AKC and HRC differ, and many people get confused. in AKC you can list alternate handlers on the entry form. In HRC only one handler is allowed. My club's hunt secretary explained it to me. Records are kept for each dog that enters a test and whether they pass. When someone applies to be a judge they have to have proof they handled a dog to a pass in the level they are applying to judge. If the slips listed multiple handlers, you would never know after the fact WHO actually handled that dog to that pass.
    Sorry but that is incorrect about HRC. I have been Hunt Test Sec for years and you can put 2 handlers on the premium. I have done point reciepts with 2 handlers if sheets are dong prior to the hunt. Now if that person wants to judge than it is up to them to run a test with only one handler. I also judge, and in started, it is not that much an issue if handlers are switched from one series to another since you can hold your dog. But when you advance up, I do believe it should the same handler all series. Sometime you have a pro train your dog and you want to run, but in the 1st series dog does not listen to you as well as the pro, so if the pro takes over in the 2nd series, more than likely the dog will better. It is all about team work in the mid to higher levels. I have judges started a lot and have let children come to line with help. I also have let the dad walk the dog up and turn over to child at the line.
    As far as the orginial poster, the dog will always fire up at a hunt test over training. I have a MH dog that still tries to pull be to the holding blind when running Master. Take her off the lead and she if fine. Hunt test have different smells, noices and distractions and always pumps up a dog.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duckquilizer View Post
    IT'S NOT THE DAWG!!!
    I hear you, but it is at least a little bit the dog, which is a good thing. If I had a young dog that didn't go a little nuts in a testing or hunting environment, then I would need another dog.

    That said, your point is very well taken that you need to set the standard for steadiness extremely high in the yard and in your training, because you are only going to get a percentage of your standard in a testing or hunting situation. And you can plan on the percentage being closer to 20 than 90, so when you think your standard is high enough you might want to double it. I wish I had seized on this particular nugget a good bit earlier than I did.

    It's not very sexy or cool, but all good things come from a steady and dependable "sit". Ask me how I know.

    As a good dog trainer has told me before, they are all better when they hit about 4 years old.
    Steve Wyatt

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