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Thread: Obamacare ... the Unintended Consequences

  1. #41
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    This isn't exactly the news one would hope for:
    In Oregon, that 56,000 number you’re hearing today is all Medicaid. Their online exchange doesn’t even work yet. The state bulked up its Medicaid rolls by targeting food stamp recipients. So great, those folks have some kind of insurance (whether or not a doctor will see them), but it tells us nothing about the private health insurance exchanges — the middle class version of Obamacare — or how they’re going to fare.
    http://nationalreview.com/corner
    In South Dakota
    Avera says it has made 21 sales while Sanford reports two. DakotaCare has made none.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    This is another zinger ...
    After January 1, other Americans are also going to be in for a nasty shock. The IRS is sending a separate form to all taxpayers requiring them to declare what health insurance they carry, what the benefits are, and how long they've been enrolled.


    It is the IRS who will decide whether or not you're carrying the proper insurance. If not, taxpayers will be forced to pay the fine. It won't matter what your insurance company tells you. If the IRS determines you're not in compliance -- tough luck for you.


    We're only finishing the first chapter in the Book of Obamacare. So far, it's living up to its billing as a horror story.
    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz2i7oE7WlK

    Even for those who try to do the right thing, there could be a problem ... again as a result of the software issue ...
    People have to be enrolled by March 31 ... but due to the way health insurance typically gets started, on the 1st of the month ... (obviously the guys who wrote the law didn't know this since the govt just gives them theirs?), people will have to sign up by mid-Feb, so the insurance can start by Mar. 1.

    However,
    But insurers are focused on a much earlier date: Jan. 1. That's when the insurance plans will start to become active. The nightmare scenario for insurers would be if, at the beginning of the new year, they are bombarded by complaints from consumers who, based on information displayed on the federal website, were expecting a certain set of benefits that don't correspond to the plans to which they signed up.
    The reason this could occur:
    Insurers are getting bad information from the enrollments. The federal data hub that is supposed to tell consumers how much of a subsidy they will get is so dysfunctional that insurers have no confidence in the data. And come January 1, insurers believe there will be lots of outraged consumers who were misquoted on coverage and cost.


    Duplicate enrollments are a recurring issue. This means that the insurer is notified that somebody has enrolled in an insurance policy through the government exchange, but then receives another notice that the same person has un-enrolled, followed still later by another one that they re-enrolled, and so on.


    As of now, it's unclear whether this duplication problem is triggered by a failure in the way Healthcare.gov interacts with the systems of insurers, or if shoppers on the federal exchange are enrolling and un-enrolling themselves as they go through the selection process. Insurers can't ascertain the ultimate choice of the shopper because there are no time stamps attached to transactions on the site.

    It appears that getting onto the website and creating an account is just the tip of the iceberg.

    Makes me wonder if there will be another executive order sometime between Jan. and April that ... delays the individual mandate until June 1?



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  3. #43
    Senior Member JDogger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    This isn't exactly the news one would hope for:

    http://nationalreview.com/corner
    In South Dakota
    Gerry, your link in your above post seems to have nothing to do with the topic at hand. JD
    One cannot reason someone out of something they were not reasoned into. - Jonathan Swift

  4. #44
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDogger View Post
    Gerry, your link in your above post seems to have nothing to do with the topic at hand. JD
    "The Corner" on that site covers multiple topics ... you have to keep scrolling until you come to the one you want to read.
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  5. #45
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    I'm still trying to understand why as a family that purchases an individual policy I should be jumping for joy about my rates doubling to pay for others. We are not young but rather just healthy.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  6. #46
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Politico is reporting on the O-care loop hole:
    Experts say Limbaugh is correct on one point: The IRS lacks teeth in enforcing the individual mandate. The Affordable Care Act prohibits it from using liens or levies to collect the penalties, tools the agency regularly employs to collect other unpaid taxes. Nor can it criminally prosecute anyone for failing to pay up.


    “One would need to make sure that he/she is not due a refund … [T]he point Limbaugh makes about refund filers, while a bit coarse, is true,” said Robert Kerr, senior director of government relations at the National Association of Enrolled Agents.
    But the fines can build up, with interest, so ignoring the penalties could come back to haunt negligent taxpayers, some experts said.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/1...#ixzz2j3Xg76Y0

    Even if you don’t pay your penalty—which grows to $695 or 2.5 percent of income by 2016—the IRS can’t come banging on your door. Some Republicans have claimed otherwise, like Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), who said last month that individuals will “go to jail” if you don’t pay the fine.
    Although, in fairness, Paul may have made this statement before the loop hole was discovered.

    “There’s no way for the IRS to collect the penalty,” said an industry source working with the IRS on implementing the law.

    Limbaugh’s epiphany on penalty collection restrictions isn’t new. Then-IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman in 2010 said the most obvious way to enforce the fees would be to use tax refunds.


    “It is true there will not be a lien or other collection action taken against the taxpayer if they owe the penalty and are not getting an income tax refund,” said Gene King at H&R Block.


    The penalties won’t disappear—they’ll simply add up at the IRS over the years. They could start being collected out of any refunds the taxpayer is owed in any subsequent year, King said.


    Plus, overdue charges will accrue interest.
    If people stop over-paying their taxes so they can get a refund, I wonder how that will affect the cash flow of the govt during the course of the year?

    Brian Haile, senior vice president for health policy at Jackson Hewitt, says Limbaugh’s assertion “may have limited relevance for many Americans” — not only because most Americans get a tax refund but because those most likely to be hit with the penalty are also more likely to get some sort of tax credit from the government, such as the earned income tax credit for the working poor.


    “Additionally, the proportion receiving refunds is even higher among taxpayers with adjusted gross incomes between $15,000 and $50,000, which is a demographic that is disproportionately likely to be uninsured,” he said.
    Well, there's a break for you ... the ones who are most likely to end up paying the fine are the ones who are the lowest on the income food chain.

    Wonder if an executive order could just fix this right up?

    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    In KY, as of Thursday, 10/24, 26,000 people had enrolled, just 21,342 of them enrolled in Medicaid, not O-care.

    KY was granted $254 million to set up their system (none of that money goes into any insurance itself).

    The only good news may be that they have had to employ 100 people in their call center; and, of course, there was some work in getting the program set up.
    http://www.lex18.com/news/lex-18-inv...dable-care-act
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    "Dem Party is F****d." That was the subject line of an email sent to me Sunday by a senior Democratic consultant with strong ties to the White House and Capitol Hill. The body of the email contained a link to this Los Angeles Times story about Obamacare "sticker shock:"
    http://www.nationaljournal.com/white...-fire-20131028
    The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn't honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. "We will own this problem forever," the Democrat wrote.
    I have to add here a comment by Rush ... here this consultant is looking at this train wreck, and he is NOT worrying about what devastation this will have for the people who will be paying the higher costs, tearing their household budgets apart (or risking going totally without health insurance) ... his focus is purely the political impact.

    Out of touch much with the real world of working Americans? This fella, and all those exempted (including Congress & staff) are insulated and protected by either their waivers or their income levels (with Congress, it's both) ... and there is no regard for the real personal duress this has caused real, living people.

    Saw figures cited in one article that prior to O-care about 100 million Americans had coverage through govt-related programs (presumably Medicaid, Medicare, and things like CHIP programs for kids). Another 167 million were covered through their employers or individual policies. That left about 33 million without coverage. Hard to know if that 33 million includes 10 million illegals or not as I haven't seen much about that specifically. Also included would be those young people who choose not to have health insurance (if they are not getting from their employers).

    I'd just wager that for much less than the painful cost of O-care, one could have paid for some decent coverage for those with pre-existing conditions, who are the group most often cited as a big reason for O-care. If a modest tax had been levied on everyone, they could probably have gotten the funds needed for those people ... and saved everyone else a WHOLE lot of $ ... just the $ saved on navigators could have been a big part of that pool of $ for those with pre-existing conditions.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

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  9. #49
    Senior Member duckheads's Avatar
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    Just got my letter today.

    "To ensure that your group's coverage will include all the new benefits that the health care reform law requires in 2014, we'll be discontinuing your current plan on February 1, 2014, and offering you a new plan."

    So I guess my old plan will be labeled as junk insurance now. What a big ole pile of steaming crap! My plan was what I choose as a good balance between cost and coverage. I looked at my old plan just like I look at my other insurance coverage. I buy term life insurance and invest money my self instead of investing in other types of life insurance. I choose a high deductable for my home owners and vehicle coverage as I save money on premiums and share some of the burden if I have a claim. Now my f'd up federal government is going to tell me what coverage I need and on top of that I need to help subsidize others. I don't need or want the government to tell me what I need. Now if some people are to stupid to take care of their own affairs and want the f'd up government to take care of them, have at it but force that crap on me. Just makes me think of the email that has gone around explaining the difference between the left and right.
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  10. #50
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duckheads View Post
    Just got my letter today.

    "To ensure that your group's coverage will include all the new benefits that the health care reform law requires in 2014, we'll be discontinuing your current plan on February 1, 2014, and offering you a new plan."

    So I guess my old plan will be labeled as junk insurance now. What a big ole pile of steaming crap! My plan was what I choose as a good balance between cost and coverage. I looked at my old plan just like I look at my other insurance coverage. I buy term life insurance and invest money my self instead of investing in other types of life insurance. I choose a high deductable for my home owners and vehicle coverage as I save money on premiums and share some of the burden if I have a claim. Now my f'd up federal government is going to tell me what coverage I need and on top of that I need to help subsidize others. I don't need or want the government to tell me what I need. Now if some people are to stupid to take care of their own affairs and want the f'd up government to take care of them, have at it but force that crap on me. Just makes me think of the email that has gone around explaining the difference between the left and right.
    Welcome to the club. Stupid thing is my current plan is actually better than many of the obamacare plans.
    This is insane. It is nothing more than a huge tax on the healthy.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

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