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Thread: Obamacare ... the Unintended Consequences

  1. #81
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    Here are a few facts that cute little list does not fully explain. Deductables and total out of pocket expenses amounts are only if you are 100% within the network.
    I'm not following this because I have not read the entire plan. From what I gather, rather than take what your insurance company offered you when they sent you the letter announcing that your current plan was no longer available, you went out and shopped on the individual market on your own. Is that correct?

    Now, does this email compare your old plan to the new one you found?

    What I and really curious about is, did you ever go on the the exchange to see what you could come up with? I know you hate Obummer with great passion. So, I am assuming that you would never shop on the exchange? I would think that someone with your personality, one who really likes to figure out the ins and outs of this kind of thing, would be dying to see how badly you'd get screwed on the exchange. Once I hear that healthcare.gov is working smoothly, I am looking forward to going on there and shopping as an individual, and again for my company, just to see how it stacks up against what we offer now in our current group plan. Whatever the case, I'll wait until next year. Our carrier is BCBS. They opted out of offering plans on the exchange for 2014, obviously worried that the sick uninsured would come like a stampede looking to get covered and get to a doctor. So, rather than jerk employees around, we'll probably stick with our current plan until 2015 when hopefully the dust settles a bit.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  2. #82
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    BCBSNC is the almost the whole exchange in NC. There is another carrier Coventry but I've never really heard of them. The BCBSNC website is where I went as there is no reason to attempt the exchange. You get same info with the exception of credits which do not apply to us. I also went directly to coventry pure garbage. The cheapest BCBCNC plan takes you down to a very limited network and does not cover out of network at all. DH travels all the time as an IT consultant so we need a national plan. The cheapest plan is almost 300 more per month than we pay now. That is the exchange in NC.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmylabs23139 View Post
    BCBSNC is the almost the whole exchange in NC. There is another carrier Coventry but I've never really heard of them. The BCBSNC website is where I went as there is no reason to attempt the exchange. You get same info with the exception of credits which do not apply to us. I also went directly to coventry pure garbage. The cheapest BCBCNC plan takes you down to a very limited network and does not cover out of network at all. DH travels all the time as an IT consultant so we need a national plan. The cheapest plan is almost 300 more per month than we pay now. That is the exchange in NC.
    Somebody here told me when I called the insurance companies and politicians thieves, that I should self insure and save the money that I paid the "evil" insurance companies. Even called me a "Richard Cranium" I know what he meant though. HAHAHAHA

  4. #84
    Senior Member M&K's Retrievers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    It has always been a fact that when the uninsured get care, taxpayers and those who have insurance through work and those who take personal responsibility for themselves and their families by getting coverage in the individual market end up footing the bill. Otherwise doctors and hospitals would be unable to stay in business.

    While I was disappointed with the direction that healthcare reform took right from the start, one of the things it tries to address is these back door costs. Those who cannot afford to cover themselves are subsidized but at least now they will pay a portion of the costs. And those who cannot even afford to pay a portion will be covered through expanded medicaid in states where the governors and legislatures were not arsehats enough to refuse the expansion. Hopefully those people will go to the doctor before things like cancer go to stage 4, or before high cholesterol or high blood pressure results in a heart attack or stroke.
    As I have said on this forum before, of the 47 million of uninsured in the country, only 17 million are uninsurable because of health conditions or can't afford it. 30 Million just didn't want to buy coverage. Before the ACA, all of these 47 million will get treatment if needed and the rest of us will pay for it through higher taxes, provider charges and premiums. My solution has been the simplest. We the "village" needs to take care of these folks via a pool funded by our taxes. These people should contribute what they can towards the cost of this pool. The 30 million who don't chose to buy insurance, screw them. No proof of insurance or proof of membership in the pool, no treatment without of the ability to pay. No Federal tax or fine. No treatment. Period.

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  5. #85
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Mike, I don't think that the # of uninsured that this whole thing was based upon was as high as 47 million. I thought the # we were working with was 30 million? However, #s have been bandied about so much, I'm really not sure what the actual # really is anymore.

    Have recently seen #s of 15 million with individual insurance; and something like 156 or 167 million with employer insurance. Then there are those on Medicaid or CHIP programs and Medicare. The recent CBO figure for employer-covered insureds who would have to change plans was cited recently as 93 million ... so the 156 to 167 million might be reasonable since some employers probably have plans that are not considered junk policies.

    I tend to agree with you, if we were trying to fix something for 10% of the population, it sounds more reasonable to assess a "tax" to create a pool. It would have been MUCH easier to manage such a more limited program for 10% of the population (about the size of the ENTIRE population of Canada) than to try to micro-manage 300 million.

    Buzz, not entirely fair to critique the states who did not set up expanded Medicaid. Not all states have the same Medicaid programs. Some states' Medicaid plans are better plans than other states. Since I've never been on Medicaid, I can't speak with any first-hand knowledge, but do recall that our Gov. Corbett expressed that because PA's Medicaid benefits were of a certain calibre, expanding the program to many more individuals would be huge expenditure even for the 10% cost in year four.

    Yes, Buzz, the taxpayers end up on the hook for the unpaid medical costs of health care providers in one way or another, so the question is how to get the most bang for the buck. Bureaucracy does not help keep costs lower.
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  6. #86
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M&K's Retrievers View Post
    As I have said on this forum before, of the 47 million of uninsured in the country, only 17 million are uninsurable because of health conditions or can't afford it. 30 Million just didn't want to buy coverage. Before the ACA, all of these 47 million will get treatment if needed and the rest of us will pay for it through higher taxes, provider charges and premiums. My solution has been the simplest. We the "village" needs to take care of these folks via a pool funded by our taxes. These people should contribute what they can towards the cost of this pool. The 30 million who don't chose to buy insurance, screw them. No proof of insurance or proof of membership in the pool, no treatment without of the ability to pay. No Federal tax or fine. No treatment. Period. No ticket, no laundry regards,
    That works for me. I don't begrudge those who are disabled or those not mentally or physically equipped to earn sufficient income to provide for their own care. I am willing to belly up to the bar and subsidize them. Those too irresponsible earn their own way or too dumb or cheap buy in by contributing to the pool, too bad for them...

    Gerry, South Dakota did not expand Medicare. I did not pay attention to that debate but now you have me curious. My impression is that the decision imposes a burden on our clinics and hospitals that we tax payers and consumers of healthcare will ultimately pay for. Maybe it all comes out in the wash.
    Last edited by Buzz; 11-06-2013 at 09:58 PM.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

    Raven - Moneybird's Black Magic Marker***
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  7. #87
    Senior Member luvmylabs23139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shinyhead View Post
    Somebody here told me when I called the insurance companies and politicians thieves, that I should self insure and save the money that I paid the "evil" insurance companies. Even called me a "Richard Cranium" I know what he meant though. HAHAHAHA
    This isn't a result of the evil insurance company. It is a result of the ACA. NO longer can policies be medically underwritten. So if you are healthy you will pay a lot more.
    Hihope Hiland Heathen of Perth CD, RE, CGC, TDI

  8. #88
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    My impression is that the decision imposes a burden on our clinics and hospitals that we tax payers and consumers of healthcare will ultimately pay for. Maybe it all comes out in the wash.
    That is about the sum of it: for those who get something free, somebody has paid for it. There are multiple different ways that transfer can be made. What would be the most cost-effective way is the question.

    Speaking of Medicaid:
    An internal audit of the Medicaid program in President Barack Obama's home state of Illinois has confirmed what was quietly known for years: a huge proportion of enrollees are not actually qualified for the program. At first, the proportion was reported as up to half of enrollees. Later, the state reported that only one in four had been ineligible. Regardless, it has already begun canceling Medicaid for hundreds of thousands of recipients.
    Problems with Medicaid are especially topical, as Obamacare offers states funds to expand their Medicaid programs. Indeed, early reports of Obamacare enrollment indicate that many, and perhaps most, of those who have obtained health insurance through Obamacare have joined Medicaid rather than purchasing private insurance. The new entitlement may be adding new layers of confusion to a system already rife with fraud.
    http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2...-is-Ineligible

    As I understand it, O-care has made the income qualification for Medicaid higher, so that more people would qualify. I could be wrong on that. If so, perhaps some of that 25% that was fraudulently qualified will now become "legal"?

    That doesn't even take into account that there is probably fraud there, as in Medicare, of billings for services from "phantom" providers who never provided any services for the billings they submit to the system.
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  9. #89
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Seattle Children's Hospital caught in O-care squeeze
    http://www.youtube.com/v/xoKBykfrXCM&hl=en_US&fs=1&
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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  10. #90
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    While millions of Americans deal with the fallout of ObamaCare in the form of increased premiums prices and cancellations, the New York Post reports that President Obama has already moved to protect his Big Labor allies from paying their "fair share." After publicly refusing to do so, the Administration has quietly "sneaked in a rule that would let some labor unions off the hook for an ObamaCare tax."

    The tax, known as the reinsurance fee, requires self-insured organizations, such as unions and some large companies, to pay $63 for each covered member and an additional $63 for each additional family member on a health plan.


    The fee was expected to raise $25 billion over three years, with the funds going to insurance companies to offset the cost of covering pre-existing conditions and other mandatory benefits.
    If they fail to raise this $25 billion in those 3 years, then somehow the difference has to be made up to keep the whole thing functional. More national debt? Higher taxes somewhere else?
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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