The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3456 LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 58

Thread: Sloppy sit on whistle

  1. #41
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    900

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BJGatley View Post
    Your dog loves the work...Kudos for that as a trainer. When you whistle sit, let her sit there a while and do nothing. Watch what she is doing and instead of giving her a cast to go out, throw a bumper toward her (short) to you and recall. In route, blow the site whistle. Recall and blow another sit whistle. Watch...Then have her retrieve the bumper. Get her to think about you and not the retrieve (reward).
    Sounds like you have a great dog.
    I am repeating this since your thread got Hijack.
    Careful of drills. They can sour a dog's attitude real quick if done too much and the stuff we are doing is man made. Each dog is different. What might work for one dog.........
    Just be simple in your approach and your dog will tell you when they get it. They feed off of us.
    Keep it fun and try not to be a perfectionist.
    As I have said before, it sounds like you have a great dog.

  2. #42
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    You know you're addicted if you have ever stood in front of a full-length mirror and tried all your casts to see if you were doing anything confusing to the dog. Self scouting, as it were.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    Cruncher , It is really important not to lean or shuffle feet or step sideways while preparing to cast. When you get to advanced training hopefully your dog will be "IN TUNE" to all of those small movements, and if you step left while preparing to cast right, your DOG is going to get in trouble because he will be going left ( because of the step to the left) .
    I understand getting the rope organized and that is necessary, but once you get that don STAND SQUARE, do not lean, do not dip a shoulder etc . If you have to move, IT MUST be toward the direction you will be sending your dog...
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  3. #43
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Watford, ONT
    Posts
    3,270

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BJGatley View Post
    I am repeating this since your thread got Hijack.
    Careful of drills. They can sour a dog's attitude real quick if done too much and the stuff we are doing is man made. Each dog is different. What might work for one dog.........
    Just be simple in your approach and your dog will tell you when they get it. They feed off of us.
    Keep it fun and try not to be a perfectionist.
    As I have said before, it sounds like you have a great dog.
    Yes you have to be careful when doing drills that pressure is not used unnecessarily.
    HRCH Scaupgetters Tarnation QAA
    HR Blackie 2 CGN, WCI
    Metras's Hashtag Mickey


    "Knowing how important right timing is in accomplishing right actions"
    Uncle Ray

  4. #44
    Member mathewrodriguez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Conroe, Texas
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Attitude is important; however, sit means sit... no exception, and should not be confused with developing or maintaining “style.” The most basic fundamentals of retrieving are sit & fetch. Everything is built off these fundaments. Both need to be PERFECT. It's extremely hard to enforce high standards if these two elements are not only sound, but exact. Teach... then train till the dog is proficient... then reinforce to demand compliance of a standard. If the dog is advanced into basics before it knows how to sit, how can one expect the dog to sit when it’s sent on a blind or has to be handled on a mark? It’s my opinion, but I do not believe a dog should be forced or put through basics until obedience is at a standard that is acceptable for fieldwork. A dog that understands a standard and has rock solid obedience can handle pressure better and understands reward/punishment and has a better mindset (focus) to learn. And thus, advances faster. By the time the dog starts blind work, a dog should be extremely sound in sit. Not sit 6” from the heel one time, 3” the next… exactly in the same spot --- every single time. Sit directly on heel not a fingers gap from the leg. Nose to toes. Perfectly square, every time. If a move is made the dog is insync with every single movement remaining in the sit position; forward, backward, side to side, clockwise & counter clockwise. Not jumping and bouncing, but fluid and precise, whether big or small movements. The next step in obedience is remote sit. Start directly in front of the dog with the dog square and looking directly at you. Work on this sit until the dog can hold its focus on you for at least 30 seconds, if not a minute. Then proceed by taking one step back. Then two steps back. Then three steps back. If the dog looses focus, move up closer. Now move one step to the right, the dog should move in concert and square up… instantly. Once perfected, move one step to the left, same thing. If the dog starts to get sloppy with sit, heel the dog and sit the dog perfectly. Then go back to the remote sit. At 5 steps back or so, start moving back at 5 (+/-) yards each time. Small increments make for big progress. Make full circles with the dog mirroring the movement. If the dog has problems move back in. If the dog gets sloppy on the sit, go back to the sit at heel. Continue till the dog is hundred yards away doing full circles, then move on to the next phase of training. That is a dog that knows how to SIT, anything shy of that simply is NOT.

    Now, if the dog starts to get sloppy in the field, you have a clear, concise, definitive tool in your toolbox to resort back to and to reinforce sit. SITS SHOULD BE PERFECT. Having to come-up with some little trick to get the dog to face the handler and hope that the trick will last and that a standard can be imposed off the trick, is not truly reliable. If taught precisely, the dog will understand precision. If taught sloppy… the dog gets sloppy. Sitting is not talent based, it is a trained response and any dog can be taught to sit. Sitting should not take away attitude either. If it does, the dog probably isn’t cut out for retriever work.

    Obedience is the key to good, solid basics. Basics is the key to good, solid transition. Transition is the key to good, solid advance work. It is a progression, one’s standard begins at step one, not midway through. Sit is step one… and is one of the most important, if not the most important steps.
    Last edited by mathewrodriguez; 10-07-2013 at 10:52 AM.
    Matt Rodriguez

    "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare."

  5. #45
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Salt Lake City
    Posts
    2,203

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mathewrodriguez View Post
    Attitude is important; however, sit means sit... no exception, and should not be confused with developing or maintaining “style.” The most basic fundamentals of retrieving are sit & fetch. Everything is built off these fundaments. Both need to be PERFECT. It's extremely hard to enforce high standards if these two elements are not only sound, but exact. Teach... then train till the dog is proficient... then reinforce to demand compliance of a standard. If the dog is advanced into basics before it knows how to sit, how can one expect the dog to sit when it’s sent on a blind or has to be handled on a mark? It’s my opinion, but I do not believe a dog should be forced or put through basics until obedience is at a standard that is acceptable for fieldwork. A dog that understands a standard and has rock solid obedience can handle pressure better and understands reward/punishment and has a better mindset (focus) to learn. And thus, advances faster. By the time the dog starts blind work, a dog should be extremely sound in sit. Not sit 6” from the heel one time, 3” the next… exactly in the same spot --- every single time. Sit directly on heel not a fingers gap from the leg. Nose to toes. Perfectly square, every time. If a move is made the dog is insync with every single movement remaining in the sit position; forward, backward, side to side, clockwise & counter clockwise. Not jumping and bouncing, but fluid and precise, whether big or small movements. The next step in obedience is remote sit. Start directly in front of the dog with the dog square and looking directly at you. Work on this sit until the dog can hold its focus on you for at least 30 seconds, if not a minute. Then proceed by taking one step back. Then two steps back. Then three steps back. If the dog looses focus, move up closer. Now move one step to the right, the dog should move in concert and square up… instantly. Once perfected, move one step to the left, same thing. If the dog starts to get sloppy with sit, heel the dog and sit the dog perfectly. Then go back to the remote sit. At 5 steps back or so, start moving back at 5 (+/-) yards each time. Small increments make for big progress. Make full circles with the dog mirroring the movement. If the dog has problems move back in. If the dog gets sloppy on the sit, go back to the sit at heel. Continue till the dog is hundred yards away doing full circles, then move on to the next phase of training. That is a dog that knows how to SIT, anything shy of that simply is NOT.

    Now, if the dog starts to get sloppy in the field, you have a clear, concise, definitive tool in your toolbox to resort back to and to reinforce sit. SITS SHOULD BE PERFECT. Having to come-up with some little trick to get the dog to face the handler and hope that the trick will last and that a standard can be imposed off the trick, is not truly reliable. If taught precisely, the dog will understand precision. If taught sloppy… the dog gets sloppy. Sitting is not talent based, it is a trained response and any dog can be taught to sit. Sitting should not take away attitude either. If it does, the dog probably isn’t cut out for retriever work.

    Obedience is the key to good, solid basics. Basics is the key to good, solid transition. Transition is the key to good, solid advance work. It is a progression, one’s standard begins at step one, not midway through. Sit is step one… and is one of the most important, if not the most important steps.
    The point of the "trick" you is to teach the dog the standard. Dog learns to face handler, why is that a problem?

    As far as your drill goes, are you asking dog to pivot as you move in a circle around it? My sit standard is that dog's paws stay planted once it sits.
    Renee P

  6. #46
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,189

    Default

    I understand that "sit means sit," but you also have to know your dog and decide which battles are worth fighting.

    I asked the pro who has trained my dog about my dog's moving feet and rocket launcher position - my theory being that with my dog the less movement the better. His answer was essentially that I could probably train that out of him, but in the process I would likely train out the part of him that makes him a pretty good dog most of the time. The standard for my dog, therefore, is butt on the ground, and a meaningful correction if butt is not on the ground. Anything else I live with.

    JMHO. YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    The point of the "trick" you is to teach the dog the standard. Dog learns to face handler, why is that a problem?

    As far as your drill goes, are you asking dog to pivot as you move in a circle around it? My sit standard is that dog's paws stay planted once it sits.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  7. #47
    Member mathewrodriguez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Conroe, Texas
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post
    The point of the "trick" you is to teach the dog the standard. Dog learns to face handler, why is that a problem?

    As far as your drill goes, are you asking dog to pivot as you move in a circle around it? My sit standard is that dog's paws stay planted once it sits.
    1. Tricking does not teach or set a standard that's reliable.

    2. The dog should be on its toes and move with you just as it does at the line when you pivot. The dog doesn't stand, but it can move. The dog should be square to the handler no matter where the handler moves.
    Matt Rodriguez

    "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare."

  8. #48
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    2. The dog should be on its toes and move with you just as it does at the line when you pivot. The dog doesn't stand, but it can move. The dog should be square to the handler no matter where the handler moves.
    Why would you be moving around when the dog is facing you waiting for a cast? Shouldn't you only move when you are casting? Am I missing something?

    Just for information purposes, the first few remote sits my dogs do off lead, are about what BJGatley describes in the first post on this thread. I throw a bumper towards the dog and whistle her in to retrieve it on the way back. Kind of teaches the dog to look to me for a retrieve with the whistle stop.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  9. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,063

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Why would you be moving around when the dog is facing you waiting for a cast? Shouldn't you only move when you are casting? Am I missing something?

    .
    If you are missing something, then so am I. You want to promote stability in the dog. Moving around while the dog waits for the cast would not do that

  10. #50
    Member mathewrodriguez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Conroe, Texas
    Posts
    67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    Why would you be moving around when the dog is facing you waiting for a cast? Shouldn't you only move when you are casting? Am I missing something?

    Just for information purposes, the first few remote sits my dogs do off lead, are about what BJGatley describes in the first post on this thread. I throw a bumper towards the dog and whistle her in to retrieve it on the way back. Kind of teaches the dog to look to me for a retrieve with the whistle stop.
    When a dog turns around, the dog needs to square up to the handler, not simply turn around. What's described early teaches the dog exactly what's expected.
    Matt Rodriguez

    "The will to win is nothing without the will to prepare."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •