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Thread: The Non-Debate of the Debt Ceiling

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Default The Non-Debate of the Debt Ceiling

    Boehner has said there will be no debate on the debt ceiling ... the Rs will agree to raise the debt ceiling. He will assure there is a vote even if a majority of Rs do not agree with raising the debt ceiling.

    He presents this as a separate issue from the govt shut-down issue.

    However, I am not clear on exactly what the Rs will agree to. My understanding (definitely subject to correction) was that Obama wanted a blank check on how high the debt ceiling could go so that we would not have this discussion again next year.

    I don't like the blank check idea at all. I think we SHOULD think about the debt ceiling every time we exceed our credit limits. Is the blank check needed because it is becoming more evident that O-care is going to cost a whole lot more than anybody anticipated?
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    Senior Member Brad Turner's Avatar
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    Rand Paul said Sunday, and I'm paraphrasing, "... The President shouldn't even be mentioning default. The US brings in $250 million a month and the intrest payment on our debt is $20 million a month. When our credit rating was downgraded in 2011 the stated reason for this action was that we had too much debt."

    He also said that Congress is supposed to appropriate funds individually like the bills the House sent over last week. The funds for programs are not supposed to be lumped together like the Dems are asking for. Why is not being talked about more?
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    As mentioned in the OP, Boehner was ready to pass a debt limit increase even without a majority of Rs in favor. However, it seems that he does not have the votes to do so:
    Boehner told ABC’s “This Week” that Obama is risking default by refusing to negotiate with Republicans and that he doesn’t have the votes to pass a debt-limit proposal free of other fiscal issues.


    “We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase,” he said. “The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit, and the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us. … I’m ready for the phone call.”


    Changes to ObamaCare, entitlement reform and other spending cuts are among the possible concessions for which Republicans might ask.
    Just my own sense, this would mean, that sooner or later the Ds are going to have to compromise on SOMEthing.It would appear that they have been offered several options to choose from, not all of which would be considered "unreasonable".
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    As mentioned in the OP, Boehner was ready to pass a debt limit increase even without a majority of Rs in favor. However, it seems that he does not have the votes to do so:
    Boehner told ABC’s “This Week” that Obama is risking default by refusing to negotiate with Republicans and that he doesn’t have the votes to pass a debt-limit proposal free of other fiscal issues.


    “We're not going to pass a clean debt limit increase,” he said. “The votes are not in the House to pass a clean debt limit, and the president is risking default by not having a conversation with us. … I’m ready for the phone call.”


    Changes to ObamaCare, entitlement reform and other spending cuts are among the possible concessions for which Republicans might ask.
    Just my own sense, this would mean, that sooner or later the Ds are going to have to compromise on SOMEthing.It would appear that they have been offered several options to choose from, not all of which would be considered "unreasonable".

    Was listening to radio as I drove today ... President continues to insist that he will not negotiate until the govt shutdown is lifted by the Rs. Then he wants a blank check increase in the debt limit. Is he really believing that he can get 100% of what he wants without any compromise?
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    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Can't negotiate. Any give at all will mean that every time this comes up the president will be held hostage. Besides this pays for as many republican programs as it does democrats, why should the president have to spend political capital to pay for their stuff? The best thing to do is pass the debt ceiling increase and reopen the government and then be ready to have a real budget discussions.
    Ole and Sven are quietly sitting in a boat fishing, chewing and drinking beer when suddenly Sven says, 'I think I'm gonna divorce my wife - she ain't spoke to me in over 2 months.' Ole sips his beer and says, 'Better think it over...women like that are hard to find.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    Can't negotiate. Any give at all will mean that every time this comes up the president will be held hostage. Besides this pays for as many republican programs as it does democrats, why should the president have to spend political capital to pay for their stuff? The best thing to do is pass the debt ceiling increase and reopen the government and then be ready to have a real budget discussions.
    Great article by Thomas Friedman on just this point the other day. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/02/op...tw-share&_r=1&
    Our Democracy is at Stake - This time is different. What is at stake in this government shutdown forced by a radical Tea Party minority is nothing less than the principle upon which our democracy is based: majority rule. President Obama must not give in to this hostage taking not just because Obamacare is at stake, but because the future of how we govern ourselves is at stake.
    An interesting review of this article is also at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4038460.html

    The republican plan for shutting down the government is outlined in this February 2013 memo on the freedom works website. http://www.freedomworks.org/blog/rya...uester-savings

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    Senior Member Jason Glavich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    Can't negotiate. Any give at all will mean that every time this comes up the president will be held hostage. Besides this pays for as many republican programs as it does democrats, why should the president have to spend political capital to pay for their stuff? The best thing to do is pass the debt ceiling increase and reopen the government and then be ready to have a real budget discussions.
    We cannot look at it as Republican programs vs Democrat programs, the idea that president is being held hostage is not a true nor a fair comparison. Both sides are at fault in this mess. The idea it is just the republicans is idiotic, the idea it is just the dems is idiotic as well. Both sides have to come to the table and the President needs to come to the table as well. When the President said he wil not negotiate how is that helping the situation at all? Currently if the Republicans ideas pass the House and Senate (not that it would), but if it did the President would not sign it, if the Senate passes something the House most likley will not pass it. And since the bill has to originate in the House then i suggest some people come to the table to work out a deal that benfits THE PEOPLE more than the country or THE PRESIDENT!

    Waiting to have budget discussions till after you pass one is the same as passing a law you haven't read, it is not very smart. It would be the same as signing loan docs on a house or car and then getting the interest rate after you sign. It would be great if you got 0% but what if it turned out you got 85%, it would be bad deal becuase you signed before reading or getting all the details.

    Our credit rating was dropped for many reasons, normally our debt payments are only about 5-6% of GDP which is not very much but when the economy tanks it obviously makes the % go up becuase GDP drops. The great thing about Government debt is that it never really comes due, we only pay the interest payments, there has never ben any intention of paying off the whoe amount.(Except under Clinton with huge Surplus thanks to the Dotcom boom.)

    The Government is already open, around 83% is still operating(even more now that most of the DoD is back at work), I hardly call that a shutdown, the parks being closed may cause an outrage, but the real damage is done to the economics of the towns that surround those monuments.
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    Senior Member Jason Glavich's Avatar
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    So funny how he claims that it was different as a Senator because you had to vote on a bad deal where as President he can see why we have to do it. Laughable to say the least.
    Last edited by Jason Glavich; 10-08-2013 at 03:49 PM.
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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    The takeaway was that the president, while willing to talk with Republicans about "almost anything," will not do so until they pass a spending bill and raise the debt ceiling.


    "I've been willing to compromise my entire political career," Obama said. "But I'm not going to breach a basic principle that would weaken the presidency, change our democracy and do great damage to ordinary people."
    Well, if his "political career" demonstrates his idea of what compromise is, then I'd guess his hour-long press conference is not going to have the Rs crowding to his doorway.
    "Let's stop the excuses. Let's take a vote in the House. Let's end this shutdown right now," Obama said.
    What about the bills in the Senate?
    "The president called the speaker again today to reiterate that he won't negotiate on a government funding bill or debt limit increase," Boehner spokesman Brendan Buck said Tuesday.
    Democrats controlling the Senate, meanwhile, plan to move quickly toward a vote to allow the government to borrow more money, challenging Republicans to a filibuster showdown as the time remaining to stop a first-ever default on U.S. obligations ticks by.
    If this is the "blank check" increase, any D who would vote for that should be drawn & quartered. Who would want to give ANY President a blank check on raising the debt ceiling?
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...ont-negotiate/
    AP also contributed to the report.
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