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Thread: behavioral traits

  1. #11
    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    Lately, I've been wondering if the "Biddability" trait is genetic. The dog who loves to be a team player, make eye contact and seems to want to do what's requested of him/her.

    There is variation of this in every litter and probably connects with the dominance ladder, but I wonder if some litters are generally more biddable than others due to their parents or grandparents.

  2. #12
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Both of my FT bred labs just leapt in the water and took to it as naturally as ducks. No introduction, no problems. That however does not seem related to "cheating" water. The older one never cheated because once he was about 2.5 and he automatically took the straightest line every time to the bird. The younger one is not that driven, and will zig zag cover or puddles if allowed, (NOT!). The Chessie actually had to have "swimming lessons" from the older dog. He was just a little hesitant, didn't want to get deep enough to paddle. After about an hour of playing with the older dog he was fine. Now he is crazy about water and would rather stay in than run on land. So I don't know, do these reactions indicate breed, particular bloodlines, or just the way they were raised? And Jennifer, if you can find that biddability gene, I would pay a lot to clone it!
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2tall View Post
    Both of my FT bred labs just leapt in the water and took to it as naturally as ducks. No introduction, no problems. That however does not seem related to "cheating" water. The older one never cheated because once he was about 2.5 and he automatically took the straightest line every time to the bird. The younger one is not that driven, and will zig zag cover or puddles if allowed, (NOT!). The Chessie actually had to have "swimming lessons" from the older dog. He was just a little hesitant, didn't want to get deep enough to paddle. After about an hour of playing with the older dog he was fine. Now he is crazy about water and would rather stay in than run on land. So I don't know, do these reactions indicate breed, particular bloodlines, or just the way they were raised? And Jennifer, if you can find that biddability gene, I would pay a lot to clone it!

    Two very important points...As pointed out earlier , we train what genetics put in the dog....If biddable easier to train out some of the less desirable behaviors...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  4. #14
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
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    I think a lot of undesirable stuff we train out of them is genetic, such as vocalizing/excessive noise. One unfortunate thing you see in a lot of Chesapeakes, especially those bred to be a more "one size fits all" breed like Labs, is submissive urination into adulthood. I'm not talking about the excited puppy piddling that a lot of dogs of all breeds do and grow out of, but the type that cower and squirt pee if you so much as raise your voice at them. IME this type can easily become fear biters and lack ability to deal with any kind of pressure, so they're virtually untrainable. Sadly many of these do win in the show ring and get bred (sometimes often). Another heritable trait is a hyperactive personality that makes a dog impossible to live with and hard to keep in a kennel; the type of dog that is never still so it's kenneled, but even there continues to pace back and forth and spread its feces all over the pen. I've never had one, but heard from far too many people that it's genetic. Incidently, I cringe when I hear novices describe their dogs as firebreathers. More often than not, their "firebreather" is a hyperactive, neurotic dog that has no training and is likely untrainable.
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  5. #15
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    ... snip... So in a nut shell every thing is genetic to a large degree,,,we shape the material they have,,good or bad to the best that those components are manifested in the animal.

    Some dogs will always suck at field work no matter who trains them and some will excel beyond average without the best training. That's genetic.

    Pete
    I agree with Pete completely. So much depends on nature, we can only nurture what they are born with.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  6. #16
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    To follow up on Pete and Howard, good training is very-very important in maximizing a dogs potential, but the potential is all genetics. I see so many little things that my dogs do through generations going back to Pat Denardo's Vinny. My dogs out of that line all have the same tight, spinning-jumpy hunt pattern when they are in the AOF, they sit the same way with front legs slightly spread out, they have the same high jumping water entry, many weird little traits that come natural, and some crucial to FT success, including exceptional marking ability and straight line momentum.

  7. #17
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    Great post

  8. #18
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    All the bad ones
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  9. #19
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    Since we do not do a lot of line breeding like many years ago and especially like other breeds, I believe we just except bad traits(less desirable actions) and try to train them out when in reality we could help ourselves by breeding some of the less desirable out of the pool...OR.. at least giving others the options of different issues to deal with ...such as the hyper activity in some dogs and no off switch vs the gentleman's gun dog type....I had a discussion with a person last week and they made the decision not to keep a female for breeding based on her intense desire to cheat water on the way to and from a simple mark....Do you believe this is a genetic issue to be passed on to her off spring or not ...? Don't bring the stud into the mix ...only her ...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  10. #20
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    they made the decision not to keep a female for breeding based on her intense desire to cheat water on the way to and from a simple mark....Do you believe this is a genetic issue to be passed on to her off spring or not
    Yes, either as a water cheat issue or as a lack of trainability issue, or both.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

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