The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 35

Thread: behavioral traits

  1. #21
    Senior Member Jerry Beil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    390

    Default

    Seems like it's really tricky to determine what is and is not genetic, or primarily genetic. If you work with your own line for example, and they are ALL outstanding markers, can you be sure that it's actually the dog, or maybe something you do or don't do with your pups, or in training, or components of both maybe.

    I think speed of maturity (or maturity level by age) is genetic and can influence how you think a dog marks or does other things before you get into "training" something in or out of them. Wouldn't that complicate evaluating some of the other things from a genetic or environment standpoint?

    Someone above also brought up a good point in that the pup's position in the litter and the puppy experience before you get them has a huge influence as well.

    I'd think sitting with crossed front legs is something genetic too, except that all of my dogs do that and they're not related, heck one's a little yappy dog, so maybe it's just comfortable?

    It's an interesting question for sure.

    There was a post awhile back about the genetics of marking, and some discussion about marking itself not being genetic, but that many of the traits that go into marking (from great to poor) are most certainly genetic - eyesight for example.
    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
    Donway's Dixieland Delight - Dixie 2/24/1997 - 2001
    Rebel's Ruffian Hank - Hank - 6/05/2001 - 2/3/2011 - Profile Picture
    Blue Ridge Pot O Gold - Séamus - 1/22/2011 -
    Old North State Queen Anne's Revenge- Annie- 3/21/2013-

  2. #22
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,873

    Default

    Mom and all the pups smile, never seen it in labs before, must be a dominate trait. Mom has a great vertical leap, she flat footed jumps above my head, her two of the pups already @ 10mt jump into the second story of the dog truck without any assistance.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  3. #23
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    7,688

    Default

    There was a post awhile back about the genetics of marking, and some discussion about marking itself not being genetic, but that many of the traits that go into marking (from great to poor) are most certainly genetic - eyesight for example.
    I hope I expressed my opinion on the other thread. I am positive that "marking" is genetic. I'd say they all have some but only a few have lots. It is improved with training but like I said above, "So much depends on nature, we can only nurture what they are born with."









    '
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  4. #24
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Beil View Post
    Seems like it's really tricky to determine what is and is not genetic, or primarily genetic. If you work with your own line for example, and they are ALL outstanding markers, can you be sure that it's actually the dog, or maybe something you do or don't do with your pups, or in training, or components of both maybe.

    I think speed of maturity (or maturity level by age) is genetic and can influence how you think a dog marks or does other things before you get into "training" something in or out of them. Wouldn't that complicate evaluating some of the other things from a genetic or environment standpoint?

    Someone above also brought up a good point in that the pup's position in the litter and the puppy experience before you get them has a huge influence as well.

    I'd think sitting with crossed front legs is something genetic too, except that all of my dogs do that and they're not related, heck one's a little yappy dog, so maybe it's just comfortable?

    It's an interesting question for sure.

    There was a post awhile back about the genetics of marking, and some discussion about marking itself not being genetic, but that many of the traits that go into marking (from great to poor) are most certainly genetic - eyesight for example.
    Wish I had seen that thread. I believe the great markers are inherently great markers. I believe there a many intangibles that go into being a great marker, and excellent eyesight is just one component. I can't pretend to understand all that is involved, and I certainly believe marking can be improved through good training, but I have witnessed with my own eyes certain dogs in the same program as others, that just seem to run right to where the bird was thrown and start looking for it. They do it day in and day out, you pretty quickly just expect those dogs to run out and get that bird no matter how hard it is.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Jerry Beil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    390

    Default

    To clarify - not that great marking isn't largely genetic, but that great marking involves more than one genetic trait - there's not a great marking gene. The question was about what are the traits that go into great marking and are they genetic or not.
    <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
    Donway's Dixieland Delight - Dixie 2/24/1997 - 2001
    Rebel's Ruffian Hank - Hank - 6/05/2001 - 2/3/2011 - Profile Picture
    Blue Ridge Pot O Gold - Séamus - 1/22/2011 -
    Old North State Queen Anne's Revenge- Annie- 3/21/2013-

  6. #26
    Senior Member runnindawgz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Hemingway, SC
    Posts
    1,157

    Default



    "Happiness" is passed from one generation to the next IMHO (based on my mother / daughter team pictured here).
    Danielle R. Pellicci
    http://www.blackFootkennels.com
    Home of:
    SPICE, MH (11) CD RA NA (OA2) NAJ
    (FC AFC “Cori” X Malli QAA)
    FEATHER, MH QAA
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X “Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    PENNY, CD BN SH (RN2)
    (FC AFC CAFC “Copper” X “Faith” MH QAA)
    CAPPY
    (2XNAFC FC AFC “Ram” X “Cree”)
    HALO
    (FC AFC “Kicker” X“Spice” MH CD RA NA NAJ)
    TORCH
    (HRCH “Ticket” MH X“Penny” CD BN SH)
    &
    RIP: Rhumbline’s Guinness is Good, JH... Miss you every day "Big Man"

  7. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    Wish I had seen that thread. I believe the great markers are inherently great markers. I believe there a many intangibles that go into being a great marker, and excellent eyesight is just one component. I can't pretend to understand all that is involved, and I certainly believe marking can be improved through good training, but I have witnessed with my own eyes certain dogs in the same program as others, that just seem to run right to where the bird was thrown and start looking for it. They do it day in and day out, you pretty quickly just expect those dogs to run out and get that bird no matter how hard it is.
    What might be some of those other components..? Leaving out training ....It may not be a specific gene that can be identified by a marker on the string but I believe dogs are born with X amount of marking ability ..As Howard stated some have more than others... Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  8. #28
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Cape Girardeau Mo.
    Posts
    1,364

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runnindawgz View Post


    "Happiness" is passed from one generation to the next IMHO (based on my mother / daughter team pictured here).
    Just as an aggressive nature can be...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  9. #29
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bigfork, Montana
    Posts
    3,181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    What might be some of those other components..? Leaving out training ....It may not be a specific gene that can be identified by a marker on the string but I believe dogs are born with X amount of marking ability ..As Howard stated some have more than others... Steve S
    Just off the top of my head I would say great markers possess in no particular order, intense drive to get the bird, eye sight to see birds and guns at a distance, intelligence, memory, depth perception and some weird ability to keep track of a distinct location while running up and down, through cover, even off line, most if not all that is built in the dog at birth.

    John

  10. #30
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    1,922

    Default

    this thread is insightful. since i have never had a "great marker" i am pleased to know that:
    1. there is a chance i may be a decent trainer.
    2. it is confirmed that i suck at puppy pickin'!
    john mccallie

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •