I'm with Howard.
I'm with Howard.
There's no two hollers in dog training.
HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
Evan - Let me ask my question another way so maybe your answer will get through my thick scull.
If I decide it would be detrimental to mark my dog during force fetch at what point in the FF process would you consider it sound training to resume marking? In other words when is it ok to enforce the FF standard in the field?
Thank you for your time.
When you read in your dog that he is not dropping, rolling, or mouthing the fetch object...needing frequent reminders and/or corrections. That should indicate that your dog understands his job, even though he's not finished with the coursework yet. If you are seeing in your daily sessions behavior that indicates these problems should seldom occur, mark him. His behavior in the field will tell you if your read is correct, and that includes ease of corrections if he needs it. One more time...I think you should mark your dog unless or until he shows you it's detrimental to his training.
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that. But the really great ones make you feel that you too can become great." ~ Mark Twain
ďAdapt the training to the dog, not the dog to the training" - Evan Graham
The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
thanks I get it now.
I generally don't do any marking during FF. I want the dog to get through it quickly and I like to have morning and evening sessions. My best dogs got through it quickly.
I will do it while dog is still on table. Once they move to the ground, then no-no retrieving until they are delivering to heel the right way.
Most of the dogs I get in for training have not been started right and already have horrible retrieve habits. My job is to eliminate them-
Have FF'd hundreds of dogs this way -
Waterspook Sables Dark Secret, MH (Sable)
Trumarcs Bankshot Bandit, MH ( Fats)
Waterspook Tomfoolery, SH ( Tommie)
IN MEMORY OF::
Waterspook Bankshot Whiz Bang,JH (Jesse)
Waterspooks Girl Named Bill, SH ( Billie- my princess.....)
Waterspook Kickin' Gunshot, SH ( Boom)
Waterspook Kickin' Good Time MH(Kick)
Waterspooks Partner In Crime, SH ( Bouncer)
Brush Creek Waterspook, JH, WC- my first girl.(Spooky)
Some of them haven't been delivering to hand at that point. Some just come and spit the bumper/bird out near my feet and line themselves with me for the next mark. Up to that point I have always allowed this behavior and I let it continue until we have reached a stage of ff that they understand delivery. Often I don't have to do much work on this in the field as they will start good mouth habits and delivery on their own as ff has continued.
The argument that they are learning bad, you can't enforce good, mouth habits has never held water to me. Why would something they've been doing and enjoying since they were 3 or 4 months old suddenly be bad just because you are pinching their ear in ff? Ff has always been in a completely different place and different situation for my dogs than marking. When they've progressed enough to understand hold and delivery I have never had a problem of the dog having trouble transferring it to the field.
You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013
get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013
I'm in the same camp as Howard....there has to be something in it for the dog and the retrieve (marks) is what they live for....it's a balance.
"You can't eat a pig whole, but you can eat a whole pig." - Joe S.
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