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Thread: CA: Lead ammo ban is essentially a ban on hunting

  1. #11
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Understand my point about CHOICE now?

    Uncle Sam. You have way more important things to worry about than what bullet I shoot or some bird. Quit F'n around and get to work!
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
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  2. #12
    Senior Member sick lids's Avatar
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    No need for lead with a .50 cal. bmg, wait aren't those illegal there two because some one could shoot at an airplane with one.

  3. #13
    Senior Member HuntinDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    They have no knock down power and fragment inside the deer causing a lot of wasted meat. If they don't hit a bone they go right through the animal with extremely small entry/exit holes so the animal runs, little external blood loss so tracking the animal becomes a problem, resulting in higher percentage of lost animals. They are fast and reasonable bullet drop and distance, and of good tight shot groups. So if you shoot pop cans at 500 yards, they are a great bullet. If you want to knock down and recover big game, not my choice. Sorry you asked yet?

    /Paul
    Holy Cow, I hope you are wrong. My daughter's .243 is sighted in with Barnes VorTx bullets and I was hoping she would get her first one (whitetail) this weekend. What you described is exactly what I experienced with Federal Premium Nosler Partition in my .30-06 about 20 years ago when they first came out and were supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. I got 30 caliber entry holes, 30 caliber exit holes and dead deer that were impossible to track but I got lucky and found them just by walking in the direction they ran. This happened on quite a few before I started experimenting with other bullets.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Well, for one thing, as Bubba mentioned, large calibers on deer often result in devastating results. I shot a deer at 200 yards with a 300 win mag one time broadside high in the rib cage and it literally picked him up and flipped him over. The 243 for deer is a much better choice if distances are reasonable. Also, regardless of bullet, shot placement is going to make a world of difference. Rib bones don't put up much resistance but you drive a bullet through a front shoulder bone and any bullet is probably coming apart. While I know the marketing material says an X bullet doesn't come apart that's not what i've seen in probably 15 deer and a few elk. When it hits and opens up, those 4 wings peel back and depending on what they hit come off the bullet. Partitions on the other hand have that core that stays together and in soft flesh, the exit wound will be large and you'll have some clean up to do around it. If it hits a shoulder that ball of lead is gonna knock whatever off its feet. I prefer the partitions for Elk, Beer because I want them off their feet. I've also got some guns that seem to prefer certain bullet types. One of my 270's loves the X bullets, extremely accurate. My other 270 is the same with partitions. They are both customer built guns but sitting on a remington 700 action. Go figure. Either way, shot placement is probably more important overall so pick a bullet the gun shoots well, let her get comfortable with the gun and go have a good time. The debates on which bullet is best is just as bad as the Show vs Field, Lab vs Golden, British vs American, FF vs No FF debates that go on here. Of course we all know a FF American Field lab is the best, some people just like to debate....

    /Paul
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Lead has been around forever, when you got something that works why bother to develop anything else, something that's perhaps better? Looks like an untapped market to me. The Bunny-huggers are gonna push it down our throat eventually. Anyone want to put some thought into developing Eco friendly, better performance, maybe even a cheaper material than steel, copper, etc..Seems like there should be a lot of different materials that you could fling with gun powder and make a pretty nice hole. Copper and Steel are too expensive and too hard; perhaps a softer alloy-mixture (integrating readily found materials aluminum/zinc?). Seems like a guaranteed, money maker to me. The Govt. creates the market, some enterprising person just needs to cash in. Alas I don't have the expertise; I'm sure somebody does, (metallurgy/blacksmith?). Still if the ammo companies didn't see such coming (after they already had the Fed. change waterfowl to non-Lead), and don't have a contingency plan; They are pretty much morons.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 10-10-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Socks's Avatar
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    I read the book "Black Hawk Down" One of the SEAL's used the "green" bullets and he said he'd hit guys and see a red hole appear right before they ran off. His partner that was carrying a M-14 with lead bullets would hit a bad guy and he'd go down and not get back up. Granted different caliburs, but the SEAL with the green bullets said he'd never use them again.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Its a bit about being responsible if you CHOOSE to use a different bullet than what you are use to.

    I have used barnes 'X" bullets for some time.

    I found through experimentation, and load development, that you have to pay attention to velocity of the round you shoot.

    You cant just substitute a solid copper for a lead bullet.

    I have found if you slow down the velocity when using a Barnes X,, them penetration is excellent, along wiith expansion and bullet weight retention.

    With a .270, and the fact it shoots relatively fast velocity wise with 130 grain bullets, I had to reduce velocity a bit, to get the performance I wanted when the bullet hit the animal.. My groups because of this wernt as nice as when I used a lead bullet,, BUT, PLENTY good to hunt with,, and Like I said bullet performance has been excellent.

    Most all game animals I have taken with them, was a 1 shot drop in tracks deal. Bullet DID pass through,, but a well placed shot, taking out the heart, finished the dea lpretty well.

    As far as targets running off,, I would question where the bullet was placed.

    Same thing for Hornady SX (Super expansive) bullets.
    I use a 55 grain SX in .223 for Varmint hunting (Coyote)
    Hornady advises you dont shoot them over 3400 FPS.or you might experience the bullet coming apart before it gets to the target, because of the very thin Copper Jacket.BUT,,, when I shoot a Coyote, I want a decent pelt after the shot. I want the bullet to go in,, then immediately come apart inside the animal, with NO exit hole. You MUST experiment with your Load. the type and Charge of powder you use, to get that performance.

    When deciding a CHOICE of what bullet you use,,, there is some homework involved.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  8. #18
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I dont know how ANYONE can go to a sporting good store and just purchase a box of ANY type of ammo,, and then just go Hunt with it expecting great performance.
    It just doesnt work that way IMHO.
    Thats the beauty of reloading.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  9. #19
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I will say also, that I have taken deer with Sierra Game King lead bullets, that I get my best grouping with,and great velocity,but the shot placement was a pure lung shot, and I experienced the animal running for some distance, much like what Bow hunters experience with an arrow through the lungs.

    The deer still had a horrible day.

    Gooser
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  10. #20
    Senior Member metalone67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    I dont know how ANYONE can go to a sporting good store and just purchase a box of ANY type of ammo,, and then just go Hunt with it expecting great performance.
    It just doesnt work that way IMHO.
    Thats the beauty of reloading.
    I love Winchester Ballistic Supremes just for this reason I shoot 1/2 groups at 100 with that round in 22-250. It is also the best round for what you said earlier is goes in and blows apart.
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