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Thread: To many No birds at a test? Judges?

  1. #31
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    But if it is an impossible bird it should be called. When a bird angles in and is barely off the crate is tough when it's down wind. Everyone the dog was down wind of the bird he was down wind of the station. No way to get that bird unless the dog hints where he should not. I completely understand every bird will not be the same and the flyer especially. I'll take a no bird over that again all day and live with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    Once I release the dog to handler control, I've decided that it's a retrieveable bird. Too many new handlers think that a "no bird" needs to be called if their bird is not an exact duplicate of every other bird that's thrown. If the bird becomes unretrieveable after the dog's released, I have another way to complete the test sequence than a "no bird"....the handler sits the dog at the spot, he and I walk out and toss a bird to the ground, and then have the dog retrieve that bird. The dog is judged to the spot where the bird should have been and then for the delivery to the handler.

    I've got another issue. I'm against sluicing a bird in the field. First of all, too many times, make that more than once is too many, the gunners sluice after the dog has been released. The other reason is that it represents an unfair advantage for the dog that's running, particularly on water. Most dogs see the bird flighted and shot and then are expected to mark the fall. Sluicing the bird "points" to the bird while it's on the ground. I'd much rather have the dog pick-up a live flier that we then need to dispatch. If the bird takes flight, see above.

  2. #32
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    So you walk out there and throw the bird to the dog rather than call a no bird. What do you judge?
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    Once I release the dog to handler control, I've decided that it's a retrieveable bird. Too many new handlers think that a "no bird" needs to be called if their bird is not an exact duplicate of every other bird that's thrown. If the bird becomes unretrieveable after the dog's released, I have another way to complete the test sequence than a "no bird"....the handler sits the dog at the spot, he and I walk out and toss a bird to the ground, and then have the dog retrieve that bird. The dog is judged to the spot where the bird should have been and then for the delivery to the handler.

    I've got another issue. I'm against sluicing a bird in the field. First of all, too many times, make that more than once is too many, the gunners sluice after the dog has been released. The other reason is that it represents an unfair advantage for the dog that's running, particularly on water. Most dogs see the bird flighted and shot and then are expected to mark the fall. Sluicing the bird "points" to the bird while it's on the ground. I'd much rather have the dog pick-up a live flier that we then need to dispatch. If the bird takes flight, see above.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    I've got another issue. I'm against sluicing a bird in the field. First of all, too many times, make that more than once is too many, the gunners sluice after the dog has been released. The other reason is that it represents an unfair advantage for the dog that's running, particularly on water. Most dogs see the bird flighted and shot and then are expected to mark the fall. Sluicing the bird "points" to the bird while it's on the ground. I'd much rather have the dog pick-up a live flier that we then need to dispatch. If the bird takes flight, see above.
    Sluicing a flier on the water is pretty common in field trials. Generally, the judges tell the gunners that they want every bird sluiced. It makes it consistent for all the dogs, rather than one dog having to chase down a diving cripple. The judges don't release the dog until after the sluice.

  4. #34
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    Don't even want to try to beat that one! Holy Buckets!! Most I have ever had is 3 in one test with the same dog, it worked out great because he was closer to me as we walked to the line each time, he thought he was getting in trouble for beating me to the mat! 11 with one dog in one day I think you would have to either 1. hit the cooler early or 2. check in with your Dr. for some blood pressure meds!
    Aaron
    It was three dogs,,entered in their first event,,,,but still 11 no birds One of the no birds was when I ran her as test dog because she went kaput in the second series,,,, So 10 official in contention no birds,,,
    it was a busy day.

    Pete
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  5. #35
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    Just a thought to open up the topic of less no birds in a trial. Give ur experience in placing live birds in wingers to get consistent performance from mature birds that will fly. A lot of FT throw flyers from wingers to at least get a consistent boost for the duck to get airborne.
    Brooks Gibson

    Bad things happen when you ask common dogs to do uncommon things.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Allen View Post
    But if it is an impossible bird it should be called.
    I agree with this. The judge(s) should determine whether or not a bird is retrieveable. If it is, the dog is released. If it is not (examples you give) then a no bird should be called. I just refuse to say that a bird can be retrieved and release the dog only to subsequently decide that it's a no bird. If the bird becomes irretrievable after the dog has been released then I handle the completion of the retrieve as I described.

    Had exactly this situation occur. The bird was flighted, shot, and fell. The dog went out and hunted and it became clear that the dog was trailing the bird. Then the gun station called on the radio and said that the bird had walked off ... under a fence and off the field. We told the handler to sit the dog. Then we walked out with a bird and threw it on the ground and told the handler to have his dog pick it up. We returned to the line and the dog delivered the bird. We scored the dog to the mark. In addition we were able to score the delivery. Thus, we had a marking score, a perseverence score, a trainability score and a style score.

    Later, the AKC rep who had witnessed this situation told us that we handled it correctly.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  7. #37
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    Doug-

    I don't have any problem with sluicing as you describe it. If every bird is sluiced then the judges know to not release until it happens. Further, there's no advantage.

    I just get nervous with these sometimes random acts and feel it is unfair to boot.
    Eric

    WRC HR Lennoxlove's Run with Wolves JH, WCX ("Cheyenne") ... still so fondly remembered
    HRCh Struan's Devil's in De Tails SH, WCX ("Lucy")
    SR CH Struan's Flight of Fancy JH ("Muse")
    Struan's Master of the Hunt JH, WC ("Charlie")
    Struan's Just Plain Perfect ("Jane")
    Struan's Driving Us Crazy ("Daisy") ... the baby in charge

  8. #38
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Johnson View Post
    I agree with this. The judge(s) should determine whether or not a bird is retrieveable. If it is, the dog is released. If it is not (examples you give) then a no bird should be called. I just refuse to say that a bird can be retrieved and release the dog only to subsequently decide that it's a no bird. If the bird becomes irretrievable after the dog has been released then I handle the completion of the retrieve as I described.

    Had exactly this situation occur. The bird was flighted, shot, and fell. The dog went out and hunted and it became clear that the dog was trailing the bird. Then the gun station called on the radio and said that the bird had walked off ... under a fence and off the field. We told the handler to sit the dog. Then we walked out with a bird and threw it on the ground and told the handler to have his dog pick it up. We returned to the line and the dog delivered the bird. We scored the dog to the mark. In addition we were able to score the delivery. Thus, we had a marking score, a perseverence score, a trainability score and a style score.

    Later, the AKC rep who had witnessed this situation told us that we handled it correctly.
    I don't think this would fly in a field trial. The only thing I could think of doing would be to have the handler pick up his dog and give him a rerun.

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