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Thread: Beginning Force Fetch as a Newbie - (Smartfetch)

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    Default Beginning Force Fetch as a Newbie - (Smartfetch)

    I am using the SMARTWORK Program but I appreciate all advice and comments as I believe most (and I said most) programs that include force fetch are generally the same, especially at the beginning when teaching "HOLD". I have a 10mth old female Labkin. She is obedience trained and collar conditioned to all desired obedience commands. She has been taught the "FETCH" command from day one by commanding fetch to generally all marks. She is now steady on the line and only fetches on the command. She breaks from time to time but I'm OK with that right now. What I'm getting at is she understands the command "FETCH" not fully of course, hence the need for FF.
    Moving along to my question......

    In the beginnings of FF, "HOLD" is being taught. I have not seen the command "FETCH" used in the beginning of FF when teaching "HOLD". As in using the word FETCH (which my dog knows) to allow the dog to receive the bumper/paint roller easier and then command/teach HOLD. (It is not used in the SMARTFETCH DVD or any YouTube’s that I've searched.

    Can the command FETCH be used in conjunction with the teaching of HOLD? Would it hurt? It seems that it would actually help the dog to work through the next step of ear pinch. Or is there a reason we should keep it separate?


    Thanks to all that reply

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    Senior Member metalone67's Avatar
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    Hold leads into fetch, hold is what the dog does with the object fetch is the command to pick it up. Using hold will transition into fetch once you start FF.
    The foundation to a great retriever is obedience.
    Firestorms Full Throttle Chevy aka Callie-Roo 7/5/2007 - 10/25/2013 I miss you every day
    Proud owner of Kona's Surfer Girl, aka Loki.

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    Senior Member ada5771's Avatar
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    You have to teach hold first to give the dog a good foundation for FF. The main concept that you are teaching for FF is the command "Fetch" pressure on (ear pinch) and pressure stays on until i put this object in my mouth. This is the first time you are applying pressure to your dog and it may seem confusing to him the person he loves to play with and who feeds me is now hurting me. Some dogs shut down, so it is important to give praise when you get the results you are looking for, praise lets the dog know hey i am doing something correct. They usually pick up pretty quick how to turn the pressure off. The hold command gives you a good foundation for FF because once your dog puts the bumper in its mouth after responding to a ear pinch you want the dog to hold the bumper and give praise re insuring the dog it has done what you wanted. You can not do this if the dog simple drops it. You want to keep FF as simple as possible for the dog you really want him to understand hold before you start FF because you dont want to get into a battle trying to teach Hold and Fetch at the same time while also introducing your dog to pressure for the first time. The hold does not have to be prefect but he needs to understand it enough to alow you to implement praise and share the success once the dog puts the bumper in his mouth after an ear pinch. It is also teaching the dog be comfortable with holding forien objects in his mouth that you will be making him grab in FF.
    Drew Allain

    Cajun Made King "Zeus"

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    both giving very good advice about hold leading into fetch.

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEMOSABI View Post
    Can the command FETCH be used in conjunction with the teaching of HOLD? Would it hurt? It seems that it would actually help the dog to work through the next step of ear pinch. Or is there a reason we should keep it separate?

    Thanks to all that reply
    A better question might be "would it help"? Keep it simple. As others have explained, "hold" is an individual skill that needs to be established first. It's better to keep it isolated at this point. As you progress, it will meld with 'fetch', and ultimately become a component of a single command, which is 'fetch'. Of course, as you continue through the course you will transition to 'Back' as you work into pile work.

    Don't let yourself get lost in thinking that your dog will ever speak English. Keep your commands brief and clear. When you're giving commands you're not speaking sentences for him. You're giving cues that he easily connects with simple acts.

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

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    Senior Member metalone67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan View Post
    A better question might be "would it help"? Keep it simple. As others have explained, "hold" is an individual skill that needs to be established first. It's better to keep it isolated at this point. As you progress, it will meld with 'fetch', and ultimately become a component of a single command, which is 'fetch'. Of course, as you continue through the course you will transition to 'Back' as you work into pile work.

    Don't let yourself get lost in thinking that your dog will ever speak English. Keep your commands brief and clear. When you're giving commands you're not speaking sentences for him. You're giving cues that he easily connects with simple acts.

    Evan
    What? My dogs talk to me very clear, flip me off every chance they get. LOL
    The foundation to a great retriever is obedience.
    Firestorms Full Throttle Chevy aka Callie-Roo 7/5/2007 - 10/25/2013 I miss you every day
    Proud owner of Kona's Surfer Girl, aka Loki.

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    Thanks to all that replied. I understand that hold is an integral part of FF and is the first and most important part of FF. It's the foundation of FF. I also understand that the action of holding will just become a part of the fetch standard.

    I apologize now for all future questions. I'm an engineer by profession and tend to overthink/question everything. Things that aren't broke don't need fixing, but everything can be improved upon. Sorry, I was trained that way. I not only want my dog to learn something from this program, I do too.

    Evan, I appreciate you being available to answer my "Smart" questions.

    Does anyone else have a different opinion???????





    [

  8. #8
    Senior Member metalone67's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEMOSABI View Post
    Thanks to all that replied. I understand that hold is an integral part of FF and is the first and most important part of FF. It's the foundation of FF. I also understand that the action of holding will just become a part of the fetch standard.

    I apologize now for all future questions. I'm an engineer by profession and tend to overthink/question everything. Things that aren't broke don't need fixing, but everything can be improved upon. Sorry, I was trained that way. I not only want my dog to learn something from this program, I do too.

    Evan, I appreciate you being available to answer my "Smart" questions.

    Does anyone else have a different opinion???????





    [
    I build things engineers design and now I understand your dilemia a little more. LOL j/k
    The foundation to a great retriever is obedience.
    Firestorms Full Throttle Chevy aka Callie-Roo 7/5/2007 - 10/25/2013 I miss you every day
    Proud owner of Kona's Surfer Girl, aka Loki.

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    Senior Member ada5771's Avatar
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    You shouldnt be appoligizing for asking questions. Thats what this forum if for.... Better you ask on here then do it the wrong way and stuck starting from scratch when the dog is older. So ask away you have the best free advice on RTF take advantage of it. You will meet manny great people on here and the only way you will learn is to ask questions.


    PS im an Mechanical Engineer as well you are screwed for the future i overthink and question everything! I have learned to just talk my self through it. They have days when i just cant figure out what the dog is thinking and want to pull my hair out so i call my training mentors and keep them on the phone for hours talking myself through it.
    Drew Allain

    Cajun Made King "Zeus"

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    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KEMOSABI View Post
    Evan, I appreciate you being available to answer my "Smart" questions.
    Anytime. Don't be shy. Most dog trainers are control freaks. Don't sweat it!

    Evan
    "Prepare your dog in such a manner that the work he is normally called upon to do under-whelms him, not overwhelms him." ~ Evan Graham

    “People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.”

    ― George Bernard Shaw


    The Smartwork System for Retriever Training (link)
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?...59&ref=profile

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