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'miniature' dogs

4K views 21 replies 13 participants last post by  Renee P. 
#1 ·
This is a question for breeders. Have you had experience of any pups from normal litters developing to about half normal size and if so any idea of the genetics? Believe the gene IGF-1 is always present in small dogs but not large but can't find out much more - at least not what I can understand! The pups in question are now adult and perfectly normal apart from the size.
 
#2 ·
#3 ·
There is a fella here in Washington who has spent many years developing the "miniature lab" and sells them for the same price as his silver labs. No joke.
 
#4 ·
There is a fella here in Washington who has spent many years developing the "miniature lab" and sells them for the same price as his silver labs. No joke.
But does he have miniature silvers?

Lonnie Spann
 
#16 ·
Boy have I got the dog for you guys! On the right is my "mini Peake", Tanzy: 50 lbs, 22", although actually she is right within the (low end) of breed standard. And, she is silver...LOL. Pic. of her with my male (who is at the upper end of the standard, 25") View attachment 15506
Going back a little, Hans Kuck had a dog, Nanuk of Cheslang, CM that was smaller than most chessies. He was also a very good dog that Eloise tried to buy. Ran like a Lab ;).
 
#8 ·
Thanks but it is a serious question - the dogs are definitely not dwarfs with no deformity at all. They are from different litters with no known history in the blood lines. We are trying to figure how we can find out where it comes from. Perhaps all breeds produce this from time to time and no one knows the answer.
 
#10 ·
Sorry to GDG up your serious question; but in answer to my own "mini Peake" I have no idea where her petite size came from, as I bred both her parents and know her history quite well and all were normal sized dogs. In fact she was one of the biggest in her litter of 10 as a young pup; she was the largest female. Now granted I sold her at 4 mos. and got her back at age 2 so there easily could've been some poor nutrition during her growing phase, but the truth of the matter is we'll never really know. She's a great dog (and I could get rich off the offers I've had for her from people that hunt out of small boats!) and has had one litter. For that breeding, I intentionally selected a large boned male at the upper end of the breed standard, and by 5 mos. all the pups were larger than their dam. None inherited her small stature. I suspect if someone has a retriever that is smaller than the norm (like mine), and selected for that same trait in breeding, more small (and maybe smaller) pups would be produced. Mine is not a dwarf and has no history of that in her pedigree, either. Sadly, too many people that breed dogs are in it for the money and sadly, are good at duping the public to pay more for "something different" (tiny dogs or colors that aren't acceptable). Anyway, one person's opinion. Marketing undersized dogs is no different than pimping Labradoodles or silvers/charcoal/champagne etc., people breeding for one trait regardless of the whole dog, and profiting from the freaks they create.
 
#11 ·
Thanks Julie - the last thing we want to do is breed undersized dogs. As it is they (GSPs) are getting too small in the field bred strains and can be too large in the show dogs. Trying to maintain the standard and not split the breed is difficult. The gene was only discovered in 2007 so guess it will be a while before modes of inheritance are discovered.
 
#13 ·
I don't think one should intentionally breed undersized dogs, but in the same breath I don't think size should really matter. You need to look at working ability first and foremost. That's why I went with a working cocker - smaller size that can still perform the job I need it to. Will he be as quick to retrieve a large goose as a lab? Probably not - but you better believe he'll do it. As far as GSPs and setters go - as long as their bird finding ability is maintained I don't see how a smaller size could be a hindrance unless they are supposed to be big running dogs hunted from horseback. Bigger is not always better, and that seems to be the mindset with show dogs... make em bigger. A lot of times in the field the smaller, slimmer dog will trump a big, strong dog when it comes to endurance. All comes down to what you need/want in a dog.
 
#18 ·
I just googled it and found that a study had been done on Portugese Water Dogs (probably in the US) and there were various extracts on research presumably trying to link it into humans. Sorry I can't remember exactly what the thread was!
 
#20 ·
Usually if you breed like to like you get more like. This is what I've seen with most of the smaller labs, if you breed them to another small lab you get smaller labs. That said the biggest lab; I'm aware of, came from normal sized parents, and his daughter (normal size) produced one of the smallest labs I've seen, when bred to another normal sized male. So I'd guess that different sizes can just pop-up from time to time.
 
#22 ·
If it is something of deep concern or interest to you, write to the corresponding author of the paper. You are likely wondering if it is Mendelian, the authors may be able to tell you that.

My take is that there are a bunch of genes that regulate size. This is just one of many, and has more to do with size variation between breeds but not within breeds.

On another note, I saw some miniature Labradoodles for sale...
 
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