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Thread: Hot Blinds - HT Rulebook pg 33

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Default Hot Blinds - HT Rulebook pg 33

    Page 33 - Whenever a blind is placed prior to a mark going down and it is to be run after the mark is retrieved, the blind shall never be placed in the same area of the fall or near enough to the gun station as to intentionally mislead the dog on its mark. This does not apply, however, to a bird that is thrown while a dog is running on a blind. Such a bird is not a trick, but a diversion bird for the dog on the blind and as such it is judged as a control situation, not as a mark.
    With the discussion going on about a senior test with a blind up the middle let me present you with this scenario. The above quote is from the HT guideline.

    Master Test
    Double Mark First bird throw is flyer
    Blind in between the marks, roughly 25 yards from both falls and is hot. (bird planted)
    Instructions to handler after both marks go down, pickup first mark of your choice, then run the blind, then pickup second mark.
    Judges actions : if flyer landed too close to blind, no bird was called and sent back 3 dogs.

    Would this constitute a violation of the rule stated on page 33?

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
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    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    It's probably legal, definitely not considered a multiple marking scenario, guess we'll have to see triple in the next 2 series. Still I've always considered Hot blinds a stupid Idea, especially if you want to judge marking. No matter how you set it up, the wind changes and they end-up affecting some to all of dogs. In MH they are usually close enough to the mark (a lot of the time In the area of the fall) that You get the added blessing of faulting a dog for Honoring his nose. Having a good Nose being an aspect the judges are supposed to be evaluating as a positive and not a fault. If your judging control hot blinds can be utilized very efficiently, however, every time I've seen them they've been in marking series and pretty much end up biting someone in the A$$. Usually the judge who wanted to judge marking, but now gets to judge control, because every dog gets to be handled off a blind, which if the bird wasn't sitting there; the dogs might investigate, but upon finding no-bird would return to hunt the mark.

    Result for stated scenario; = a lot of no-birds, a bunch of wasted flyers, very unhappy gunners, saying unflattering things about judges; very mad hunt-test committee ($$$$); all of which could've been avoided; running the exact same scenario but simply having someone hidden to set the blind after the flyer was picked up.
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 10-16-2013 at 01:02 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
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    Did any dogs pick up the hot blind?

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    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    IMHO Certainly a violation.
    Last edited by Doug Main; 10-16-2013 at 12:52 PM. Reason: clarify answer

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    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Oops, sorry I misread the title I thought it said "Hot Blondes". carry on.

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

    Member of CAHRC and North AL HRC. I train with AND AM FRIENDS WITH: Fishduck, Laidback, Splash_Em, RF2, Drake2014, Claimsadj, Hooked on Quackers, RookieTrainer and Roseberry.

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    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
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    Not a volation, just not good bird placement. That judge is just setting themselves up for trouble. If they need more meat in a test, just ad another bird and not have a double.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Did any dogs pick up the hot blind?
    Does handling count?

    /Paul
    Paul Cantrell
    Black Ice Retrievers
    Marcola OR

    Too many dogs to list (By some Bitch)

    https://www.facebook.com/BlackIceRetrievers
    http://gundog2002.blogspot.com/
    "Helping Hunters Train Their Dogs"

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Hunt'EmUp;1154508]It's probably legal, definitely not considered a multiple marking scenario, guess we'll have to see triple in the next 2 series. Still I've always considered Hot blinds a stupid Idea, especially if you want to judge marking. No matter how you set it up, the wind changes and they end-up affecting some to all of dogs. In MH they are usually close enough to the mark (a lot of the time In the area of the fall) that You get the added blessing of faulting a dog for Honoring his nose. Having a good Nose being an aspect the judges are supposed to be evaluating as a positive and not a fault. If your judging control hot blinds can be utilized very efficiently, however, every time I've seen them they've been in marking series and pretty much end up biting someone in the A$$. Usually the judge who wanted to judge marking, but now gets to judge control, because every dog gets to be handled off a blind, which if the bird wasn't sitting there; the dogs might investigate, but upon finding no-bird would return to hunt the mark.

    'Nose' was removed from the AKC HT score sheet many, many years ago. Unfortunately........-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    With the discussion going on about a senior test with a blind up the middle let me present you with this scenario. The above quote is from the HT guideline.

    Master Test
    Double Mark – First bird throw is flyer
    Blind in between the marks, roughly 25 yards from both falls and is hot. (bird planted)
    Instructions to handler – after both marks go down, pickup first mark of your choice, then run the blind, then pickup second mark.
    Judges actions : if flyer landed too close to blind, no bird was called and sent back 3 dogs.

    Would this constitute a violation of the rule stated on page 33?

    /Paul
    I would say it was definitely a violation.

    The judges must have been having a brain fart that day. Their solution of calling a no bird based on where the flyer fell was not going to remedy that situation.

    I've been a judge on tests where we had a hot blind, but they were never anywhere near the AOF of any mark in the test.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul young View Post

    'Nose' was removed from the AKC HT score sheet many, many years ago. Unfortunately........-Paul
    Another tap on the nail, for why I've become more and more removed AKC tests as well
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

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