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Thread: Question for akc rules junkies

  1. #41
    Senior Member Howard N's Avatar
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    Howard said he couldnt find anything in the rules about Blinds being run between marks.
    No I didn't Gooser.

    I said I couldn't find in the rules what Good Dog quoted. He said it came from the back of an Entry Express catalog and AKC put it there. I disagree with him, AKC didn't publish it there, someone at EE did, and I can't find that particular quote in the rules.
    Howard Niemi

    You really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

    get your dog out and TRAIN! caryalsobrook 2013

  2. #42
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    So the rules say the blinds, must not be ran inbtw the marks, but I have never read where it says the marks cannot be ran in conjunction after the blind. If you run a blind straight up the middle, before the marks are thrown, there are NO marks to interfere; it's just a blind. If You then run the marks, yes blind suction can interfere, and the dog will actually have to show they marked the falls, and not cave/return to a old blind. You aren't allowed to return to the old fall on a double, is the same skill set that you don't return to an old blind. Seems like a very fair way to run a SH series, and a great way for a dog to demonstrate marking ability. An SH title does have meaning, watered-down non-inventive SH tests that do not test the different aspect of a senior hunter, are both unfair to the dog and handlers. They do not help with easy transition into Master level tests, where the wheels usually fall off, simply because the dog-handler has never seen a B@ll-Buster Senior test.

    You CAN do this,, as long as the silly 60 yrd blind is outside the 100 Yrd marks.

    Wait! Maybe make that silly 60 yrd blind a mere 30 yrs. After the 100 yrd marks.
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 10-15-2013 at 12:12 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  3. #43
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    Since the discussion took off on a tangent, I’ll change it again.
    When will the sanctioning bodies and the participants officially decide and publish that these are not “hunting” tests but “retrieving” tests?
    I have ran a lot of both of the major venues and thee is precious little resembling a real hunt, and I hunt a lot.
    White buckets at the line even though the handler is camo head to toe, a fake stick that is supposed to resemble a firearm, birds “shot” at unthinkable shooting distances, etc etc etc.
    Let’s just start calling them what they are, retriever training tests, and maybe some of the discussions of where or where not the blinds and marks need to be will go away.
    JMHO
    MP
    The pain of regret is much worse than the pain of hard work.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I don't have any problems with the judging. My question was a theoretical one as to the akc rules.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
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  5. #45
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I don't have any problems with the judging. My question was a theoretical one as to the akc rules because my understanding was different than the ht comm. rep and was the same as the judges.
    Wayne Nutt
    Go Nutts with dog training

    HRCH Patton's Parker Co. Shadow "Shadow"
    HRCH Clineline Hijacker "Jack"
    HRCH Marks a Lot Midnight Hudson, SH "Hudson"-retired
    Castile Creek's Rawhide, SH "Rowdy"

  6. #46
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Howard N View Post
    No I didn't Gooser.

    I said I couldn't find in the rules what Good Dog quoted. He said it came from the back of an Entry Express catalog and AKC put it there. I disagree with him, AKC didn't publish it there, someone at EE did, and I can't find that particular quote in the rules.
    Sorry Howard! I edited my post ! Please accept apology

    Gooser.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #47
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Thats fine with me if you admit you are ignoring the written standard... Read the rule!

    If you find Senior boring, not a challenge, silly blind distance, dont Change the standard,, GO RUN SOMETHING MORE CHALLENGING FOR YOU AND YOUR DOG!!!

    How many times during discussions here, many very experienced Judges/ Handlers make the comment "when in doubt. refer to the RULE BOOK?

    Now in your mind the rule doesnt matter,, cause you want the tests more challenging for YOU. You want to run blinds that are not so silly.

    So, dont you think You should go run tests that may be challenging for you,, like Master or maybe even a Qual?

    Why Mess with the Senior level dog??

    Gooser
    Aww Gooser I wasn't saying blow them away or its never a challenge. I just don't personally care for a show-dog senior test...and yes I know that will prob get me heckled, but then again the hunt test is for PROFORMACE right? And I did NOT say I wanted to ignore any rules, if I judged, I really doubt I would setup a middle blind, there are a lot of other ways to get the answers. I was stating I would have to see the whole scene. I am curious as why the rules say between MARKS instead of stations though...
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    So the rules say the blinds, must not be ran inbtw the marks, but I have never read where it says the marks cannot be ran in conjunction after the blind. If you run a blind straight up the middle, before the marks are thrown, there are NO marks to interfere; it's just a blind. If You then run the marks, yes blind suction can interfere, and the dog will actually have to show they marked the falls, and not cave/return to an old blind. You aren't allowed to return to the old fall on a double, is the same skill set that you don't return to an old blind. Seems like a very fair way to run a SH series, and a great way for a dog to demonstrate marking ability. A SH title does have meaning, running the same watered-down non-inventive SH tests, does not test all the different aspects-attributes that make up a complete Senior hunter. The lack of test variety is unfair to both the dogs and the handlers. Such tests do not help with easy transition into Master level tests, where the wheels usually fall off, simply because the dog-handler, can do a basic senior test with ease, but has never seen a B@ll-Buster Senior test. If you can't do a hard senior test, you definitely can't do even a moderate Master test, where anything and everything can happen.
    This was my thought process. If you notice, my pup has a SH title and just got it. I am proud of it and her. We worked hard to get to that level. You and I both know there is a difference in a gimme test and a nice, fair well thought out test, that does the SH title justice.
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  9. #49
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    To me a SH dog is ready to hunt, not before. I'd rather see some meat in a test than have it be a gimme. Not that there are ever any of those as long as dogs will be dogs

    The test as was specd is absolutely legal per the rules. There are no marks for the blind to be "outside of" since they haven't been thrown yet. It's actually EASIER than some of the things you might see where the marks are thrown first and the blind is technically "outside" them.

    As I mentioned in the previous example, the simple act of putting a blind "outside" a set of marks doesn't necessarily make the test any easier.
    Darrin Greene

  10. #50
    Senior Member 2tall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    To me a SH dog is ready to hunt, not before. I'd rather see some meat in a test than have it be a gimme. Not that there are ever any of those as long as dogs will be dogs

    The test as was specd is absolutely legal per the rules. There are no marks for the blind to be "outside of" since they haven't been thrown yet. It's actually EASIER than some of the things you might see where the marks are thrown first and the blind is technically "outside" them. As I mentioned in the previous example, the simple act of putting a blind "outside" a set of marks doesn't necessarily make the test any easier.
    This is true. Not much harder than running your first senior blind just behind and down wind of the duck crates in the flyer station! I have learned with each event, if my dog aced it, it was a "gimmee". If my dog wandered off to another county or wouldn't come out of the water, it was a "ball buster"!
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
    Alternate Handler: Westwind Buffalo Soldier
    Apprentice Handler: Snake River Medicine Man, JH
    http://newhoperetrievers.com

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