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Thread: Question for akc rules junkies

  1. #101
    Member duckdogs167's Avatar
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    Gooser I agree with you on this one for senior dogs. If you need to do that to see control at Sr level evidently you have weak blind. Gooser how dogs were lost on the blind?

  2. #102
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    Section 25. Diversion Birds and Shots. A diversion
    shot is a shot in which no bird is thrown, and shall
    only be fired in Senior and Master Tests.
    Diversion birds may appear on a blind retrieve either
    after the dog has been sent for, or when a dog is returning
    from the blind retrieve; however, diversion birds shall
    only appear on marks when the dog is returning from a
    retrieve.

    This is the result of a rewriting on the section to limit the use of bird thrown as the dog is going out to a mark....An actual hunting situation deemed not good by the AKC ...Too many concerns over to handle for changing selection of bird in route or it being called a switch by some ( not an actual switch )....and the handle being counted against the dog...and a switch resulted in an elimination...Dogs pop as the extra bird was thrown or shot , now what ...a pop ? How do judges handle that incident..? This was never meant to to do any thing but stop the use of a bird in route to a mark...Poison birds on blinds before the dog is sent or in route has always been allowed...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  3. #103

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    IMHO, Tests for senior dogs should be set up to test the dogs, not to trick them. Based on input, it may be legal, but I think that one should consider the reason blinds are not to be run after marks when in between the marks for senior dogs. That rule is to keep things a bit more straight forward for senior dogs. Any rule can be stretched a bit to make things more difficult for them, but I don't think that should be our mind set. Things can be made plenty tough enough without working on the fringes of any rule. That is why poison birds can only be thrown at the appropriate time during marks and blinds and why distances are established for marks and blinds, etc.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver View Post
    IMHO, Tests for senior dogs should be set up to test the dogs, not to trick them. Based on input, it may be legal, but I think that one should consider the reason blinds are not to be run after marks when in between the marks for senior dogs. That rule is to keep things a bit more straight forward for senior dogs. Any rule can be stretched a bit to make things more difficult for them, but I don't think that should be our mind set. Things can be made plenty tough enough without working on the fringes of any rule. That is why poison birds can only be thrown at the appropriate time during marks and blinds and why distances are established for marks and blinds, etc.

    If you think running the blind before the marks is making things tough ,I would examine all the other possible situations...When ever this has been done when I was present it simplified things...not tougher....Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  5. #105
    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    I agree Steve
    Wayne Nutt
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  6. #106
    Senior Member Sundown49 aka Otey B's Avatar
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    I was lucky enough today to sit down and talk with Jerry Mann about this. The bottom line as far as AKC goes is that if the marks are not thrown before the blind is run there are NO marks that the blind is run between. A mark is not a mark until it is presented.
    My Dad said to me ."Son, a man just needs three things to be happy....A good dog, a good gun and a good wife.....Thank God I have all three
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  7. #107
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    If you think running the blind before the marks is making things tough ,I would examine all the other possible situations...When ever this has been done when I was present it simplified things...not tougher....Steve S
    If the judges set a blind up the middle of a virgin field, ran the blind then later put some guns out and threw a double mark, I would agree with you, but to run a land blind between two gun stations is a bit over the top in a seņor test in my opinion. Plus having the memory and scent left over from the blind adds difficulty to the marks. It may legal but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

  8. #108
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    The bottom line as far as AKC goes is that if the marks are not thrown before the blind is run there are NO marks that the blind is run between. A mark is not a mark until it is presented.


    I'm not a fan of second hand information... If the AKC has a position on the blind between the marks matter, It should be sent out as an insert to the rule book.

    john
    "i guess the old saying 'those of us that think we know everything annoy those of you that does' " --bobbyb 9/13/06

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  9. #109
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Here's another passage from the rule book:



    "On blind retrieves, wherever possible, the Judges shall
    plan their hunting situations taking advantage of hazards,
    such as islands, decoys, points of land, sandbars, ditches,
    hedges, small bushes, adjacent heavy cover, and rolling
    terrain
    . Despite such natural distractions, it shall be
    possible for a dog to find a well-planned blind-retrieve on
    the initial line from its handler; that it will do so is highly
    improbable because of those natural hazards, so it must
    be handled to the blind. The hunting situation should be
    planned so that the dog should be in sight continuously. A
    blind retrieve is a test of Trainability (control, response). A
    dog that is out-of-sight for a considerable period cannot be
    said to be under control. Utilizing natural hazards provides
    better opportunity to evaluate the abilities required of a
    superb Retriever.


    Gooser doesnt believe a Bird station with BB sitting in it 100 yrds away from the line, with Birds in Crates , Or dead in buckets are NATURAL Distractions.

    For a Judge to use a gun station IN SENIOR to test a dog on how it handles under natural conditions, isnt following the spirt of the rules.. That Judge has an EGO,, and is trying to trick a YOUNG dog,, then Gloat later of how his test "Ate Dogs"

    How is a Gun Station a Natural distraction as defined above in the rules??

    I am still lost.

    Gooser
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 10-19-2013 at 11:18 PM.
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
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  10. #110
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    AND believe me!

    Right now I can hear a LOT you guys sitting behind you key boards sayin "Oh that whiney Gooser... He needs to come to here and run MY test! We'll find out then what that flea bag a his is made of!"

    Really? Is THAT what this program is about??
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

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