I have read everyone's post on this an have enjoyed reading everyone of them. This is a great discussion. I run and judge at the Jr and Sr levels. I believe in challenging dogs on setups an want to be a challenging test when I run my dogs. I for one would try my best as a judge NOT to put on this type of test as I agree at this level of dogs it can be to much. BUT IT IS A LEGAL TEST. An UNFAIR TEST BUT LEGAL TEST. An this is why SHALL NOT......... That is why. It doesn't say WILL NOT or CAN NOT. Read in rule book under PLANNING HUNTING SITUATIONS at the bottom of paragraph it states " while keep in mind the fact that retrieves should not normally exceed 100 yards." The key words was SHOULD NOT in that statement. How many test have we all ran at all levels the marks are over 100 yards? They can put them past 100yards because the wording SHOULD NOT. If the rule book read Blinds WILL NOT or CAN NOT be ran between marks in Senior Test it would make the test not legal. We all have thank AKC for this. I had this discussion with Jerry Mann myself an that was the key to the whole thing. Wording of the rules he pointed out. He AGREES with us on not being a fair test but it is legal because they ran the blind first.
Like I said at beginning of this response I DON'T agree with blinds between marks at Senior level. But it was a legal test. I would make note of those judges an try NOT to run under them again. That's best way to deal with it.
Just so everyone know the reason I talk to Jerry Mann on this is because I have ran a Sr test on water that the blind was between the marks. It was more under the arc of one mark that bird landed way out in water an both marks where down wind of blind. Blind was ran first with invite to the marks. I give these judges good credit of take bird scent factory out. There was a 30+ dog field in this test an 20+ dogs passed the test. I was of them an it was for a title. That day I really felt I earned it.
I DID NOT agree with the test but it was LEGAL cause blind was ran first. Plus I don't agree on running blinds before marks at senior level. Most dogs go out on blinds. So they don't even get to do the marks by running blind first. Not big fan at all
Last edited by duckdogs167; 10-16-2013 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Meant water not was
HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"
Some of you are going to respond to my post on wording of rule book. I hope that your response is that the wording should be change so it not a GRAY area as I've been told me a time when discussion the rules. Make it clear to us all handlers and judges.
So Wayne to answer you question. The Hunt Test Committee was INCORRECT in making the judges changing the test because it was within the rules of AKC.
I think most here agree that in TRAINING you TRAIN above the level you are thinking about running. So,, a Senior dog, probably has the training, and talent to run one of these tests, BUT THATS NOT THE POINT! The different levels are for Progression. Maybe as a handelr, you want to guage how solid your dogs work is compared to the Senior written standard. NOT what someones OPINION is about needing to challenge dogs more,, or setting up a Ball buster tests just to proove he can...
I dont believe a Senior test should be a Master minus one mark.
I wish I had a dog , and I wish that dog had a handler that could COMPETE at a higher level (FT) because the more things change,, COMPETITION makes far more sense to me now..
It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH (Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
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My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"
You and I are on the same page Gooser...