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Thread: Training alone question

  1. #21
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    If you're training alone with wingers I think you have to plan out your marks very well. Often with hunt testers they make the line to the bird easy and the bird hard to recover due to it landing in brush or heavy cover, odd spot of terrain etc. I would ask you to consider making the line to the mark more challenging but having the bird land in a relatively easy to find spot of land. If needed seed the AOF with 3 or 4 bumpers/birds. This way if you do have to handle it most likely going to be for fighting factors to hold the lines and not because the dog can't find the bird and needs handled in the AOF. As well if the bird is easier to find you building confidence to finding the bird where they saw it land and then when you have gunner help make it tougher so if they get there and can't find it, gunner help can help build perseverance.

    /Paul
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  2. #22
    Senior Member twall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Often with hunt testers they make the line to the bird easy and the bird hard to recover due to it landing in brush or heavy cover, odd spot of terrain etc. I would ask you to consider making the line to the mark more challenging but having the bird land in a relatively easy to find spot of land. If needed seed the AOF with 3 or 4 bumpers/birds. This way if you do have to handle it most likely going to be for fighting factors to hold the lines and not because the dog can't find the bird and needs handled in the AOF. As well if the bird is easier to find you building confidence to finding the bird where they saw it land and then when you have gunner help make it tougher so if they get there and can't find it, gunner help can help build perseverance.

    /Paul
    This is how I typically set up marks. I try to avoid a dog getting to the AOF and then not coming up with the bird. That also helps when to deciding to handle on a mark. The dog will typically go offline because of a factor online. It makes handling more black and white, at least in my mind.

    Tom
    Tom Wall

  3. #23
    Senior Member Tim West's Avatar
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    Have you seen the latest from Bill Hillman on teaching a dog to return to an open crate? Dobbs called it the Place command. It can be a great tool to throw singles for your dog, handle them back to the line, and throw another one. its on his Blog at Hawkeye Media.

    I wouldn't get too hung up on length of marks and cover issues. Try to get the dog to mark the bird, not the gun. When he gets good at stand alones and place birds, you can begin to throw multiples with him staying at the line and you shooting and throwing a double or triple. Sometimes you can use stickmen to promote suction, sometimes just throw triples. Start short and throw to objects they can mark off of such as bushes, trees, etc and then lengthen and make harder.

    I have found that a good dose of these promotes marking the bird, not the thrower. I think multiple marks thrown as retireds teaches a dog to mark the area, spend time remembering it as you go to your next fall area and shoot and throw....

    Good luck...
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  4. #24
    Senior Member suepuff's Avatar
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    This thread has been awesome. Thanks Gooser! 2 really good ideas that I'm going to be using. As usual, thanks guys!
    Sue Puffenbarger
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  5. #25
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Tim said:
    (my responses in rainbow colors)

    Have you seen the latest from Bill Hillman on teaching a dog to return to an open crate? Dobbs called it the Place command. It can be a great tool to throw singles for your dog, handle them back to the line, and throw another one. its on his Blog at Hawkeye Media.

    He calls them run backs.I have done them before, but, with my worrysome personality, I became concerned I would mess her Blind running attitude up, asking her to do many of these,so I dont, Again,me being a worrier.

    I wouldn't get too hung up on length of marks and cover issues. Try to get the dog to mark the bird, not the gun. When he gets good at stand alones and place birds, you can begin to throw multiples with him staying at the line and you shooting and throwing a double or triple. Sometimes you can use stickmen to promote suction, sometimes just throw triples. Start short and throw to objects they can mark off of such as bushes, trees, etc and then lengthen and make harder.

    I kinda asked about this in an earlier post. I have noticed when I throw stand alones, that my dog seems to have developed a habit of running wide of the gun (Me). I have been told the mistake I made was my throw being to far away from me.( developing a Bad-- gun, Bird association ) I kinda a did this deliberately to get her to mark the bird, and not rely on the gun as a crutch.. Also, when I use wingers, I set the winger with a white coat on it,and set it, to throw a pretty far distance from it.A lot farther than I could eve throw a bird by hand...
    The problem really showd itself, when I would go to the training group on weekends, and the mark distances would be longer,, She will sit and watch the birds Ok, but when sent, will almost always run very wide of the AOF, almost exaggerating it,, then start to hunt back in. Her hunts then tend to be somewhat monsterous, or really stupid,,, she just gets lost... But one thing I dont need to worry about is her running to the gun.

    Tim,,( or others) have you noticed the same thing with your dogs?


    I have found that a good dose of these promotes marking the bird, not the thrower. I think multiple marks thrown as retireds teaches a dog to mark the area, spend time remembering it as you go to your next fall area and shoot and throw....

    Good luck...
    Last edited by MooseGooser; 10-17-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    I just dont think she can mark worth a POOP!
    It is far easier to spit on the work of others than it is to produce something better yourself.
    Brynmoors Prairie Sage JH ​(Sage) Just a dang fool huntin Dawg
    HRCH Calypso Seven Bales High SH (Bailey)
    HR Calypso Zoomin Loosies Mad Hader (Maddi) We loved you baby. R.I.P.
    FlatLanders Broken Pistol Ricochet SH (Flinch)


    My Christian Name is Michael Baker..
    I have gone by "Gooser" since I was a "gossling"

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalelong View Post
    I use the quack feature to help the dog.
    This is what I do.

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    Flaring a gun is a completely different issue. If you check my credentials, you will find I am mostly a hunt tester. As such put as much or as little faith in my methods as you feel they deserve.

    First my go to method to prevent running at the gun is walking singles & lots of them. My dogs are more likely to run to guns than flare them.

    A well balanced dog should have no problem running close to the gun when it is required. To accomplish this, the dog must be comfortable around gun stations. To start I would run a short, easy mark & then run 3 blinds. One very close, backsliding the gun. One under the arc & one past the old fall. I would avoid corrections for flaring but attrition as needed. Run this in multiple locations and rinse & repeat until running close to the gun with confidence.

    Next set up a stickman drill throwing hip pockets. I typically use 4 or 5 diagonally positioned in the field with the short gun throwing in front of the next shortest gun. I don't typically throw from the longest gun.Use both wingers at a single station (will not be efficent) or use the send back procedure. This should force your dog to run directly at a long gun. Throw the second bird for flaring or help if doing send backs.

    Next with same configuration throw reverse hip pockets. This forces the dog to run close to the shorter gun. Rethrow or help for flaring. I don't throw anything from the short station.

    3 or 4 days of each of these steps & most dogs will be very comfortable running near gun stations. Now your dog will probably be running to the gun. Balance is tough!!!
    Last edited by fishduck; 10-17-2013 at 12:57 PM.
    Mark Land

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MooseGooser View Post
    Tim said:
    (my responses in rainbow colors)

    Have you seen the latest from Bill Hillman on teaching a dog to return to an open crate? Dobbs called it the Place command. It can be a great tool to throw singles for your dog, handle them back to the line, and throw another one. its on his Blog at Hawkeye Media.

    He calls them run backs.I have done them before, but, with my worrysome personality, I became concerned I would mess her Blind running attitude up, asking her to do many of these,so I dont, Again,me being a worrier.

    I wouldn't get too hung up on length of marks and cover issues. Try to get the dog to mark the bird, not the gun. When he gets good at stand alones and place birds, you can begin to throw multiples with him staying at the line and you shooting and throwing a double or triple. Sometimes you can use stickmen to promote suction, sometimes just throw triples. Start short and throw to objects they can mark off of such as bushes, trees, etc and then lengthen and make harder.

    I kinda asked about this in an earlier post. I have noticed when I throw stand alones, that my dog seems to have developed a habit of running wide of the gun (Me). I have been told the mistake I made was my throw being to far away from me.( developing a Bad-- gun, Bird association ) I kinda a did this deliberately to get her to mark the bird, and not rely on the gun as a crutch.. Also, when I use wingers, I set the winger with a white coat on it,and set it, to throw a pretty far distance from it.A lot farther than I could eve throw a bird by hand...
    The problem really showd itself, when I would go to the training group on weekends, and the mark distances would be longer,, She will sit and watch the birds Ok, but when sent, will almost always run very wide of the AOF, almost exaggerating it,, then start to hunt back in. Her hunts then tend to be somewhat monsterous, or really stupid,,, she just gets lost... But one thing I dont need to worry about is her running to the gun.

    Tim,,( or others) have you noticed the same thing with your dogs?


    I have found that a good dose of these promotes marking the bird, not the thrower. I think multiple marks thrown as retireds teaches a dog to mark the area, spend time remembering it as you go to your next fall area and shoot and throw....

    Good luck...
    Dennis Voigt explains this marking on his DVD Training Alone. Take a look very helpful. Your dog stands alone at the line. I don't use a board or matt d/t potential injury. He sits. I walk out 200+yds. Throw the mark in all sorts of cover or areas, angle through ditches etc. Like traffic cop send him on out stretched arm after I shoot the gun. I may have improvised and strayed some from the DVD and his methods but.. Very effective and works well for me. JMHO
    Last edited by Mary Lynn Metras; 10-17-2013 at 11:47 AM.
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  10. #30
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    And Oh! I am trying to teach this guy to say HEY HEY?

    Blackie as Gunner.jpg
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