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Thread: HRC Fall Grand, results after 4th series

  1. #1
    Senior Member JJaxon's Avatar
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    Default HRC Fall Grand, results after 4th series

    Some of this info was copied from another site, pasted here.

    Flight A 101

    Series 1 67 Passed
    Series 2 46 Passed
    Series 3 23 Passed
    Series 4 20 Move to Upland

    Flight B 96

    Series 1 82 Passed
    Series 2 58 Passed
    Series 3 26 Passed
    Series 4 16 Move to Upland

    Flight C 97

    Series 1 73 Passed
    Series 2 43 Passed
    Series 3 26 Passed
    Series 4 20 Move to Upland

    Flight D 94

    Series 1 47 Passed
    Series 2 22 Passed
    Series 3 21 Passed
    Series 4 15 Move to Upland

    Total 71 dogs going to the 5th series - Upland

    All dogs are winners. Black dogs are my Favorites.
    HRCH TilHe CallsUsHome ~ Tilly

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nate_C's Avatar
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    OK I just don't understand how the pass rate is so low. This is not meant to be a "The grand sucks thread". I am generally curious because I am considering running them myself next year. I don't have a lot of experience with them. I watched 3 series a few years back and have kept up with them over the years watching vidoes..ect.. I have a dog that has passed 3 master nationals in a row but the pass rate with them is usually around 30-40%. Also in general I thinking master tests are a bit harder the HRC Finished. So it seems strange that the Grand is such a step up from Finished tests.

    There are certainly many dogs there just not ready to pass a grand but I have to think a good portion are so why do so few pass? Is it small little things or is it lack of ability? Where do most dogs go out? Is it not marking the birds, blinds? Of those that do it a lot do you find it frustrating?

  3. #3
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    One thing Nate is in the Grand, the scores are cumulative, whereas in the MN you start over every series.
    "Force fetch isn't about retrieving as much as it is conditioning a dog to handle pressure, in a very controlled environment. It's about putting a dog in the position of having to figure out how to turn off pressure by finding the correct response. This translates into numerous areas in training." Sharon Potter.

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    Senior Member Nate_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dman View Post
    One thing Nate is in the Grand, the scores are cumulative, whereas in the MN you start over every series.
    The Master National is cumulative. One dog can have a handle in the first series and another can have a handle in the 2nd and both will be carried to the 3rd series but a third dog that has handles in both will be dropped. Same with blinds. Same can be said for Master Tests and finished tests. If you handle in one series the next better be clean.

    Is there something different about the grand scoring that is different then a Finished test? I mean besides the standard? Again this is not an attack on the grand but when a good pro brings in 12-15 well breed and very well trained dogs and comes away with 2 grand passes you are like &*(&*)^&*(&* what does a guy have to do to pass. Is the standard so tight that luck comes into play?
    Last edited by Nate_C; 10-15-2013 at 11:36 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Andy Symons's Avatar
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    Nate, there are so many variables that go into the set ups at that level, something as simple as a 180 degree wind shift, with the picture the dogs have of a mark, can cause a serious beat down. I was there, out in the third. The corn field test pass rate was very high the first couple of days. A change in conditions made it a very difficult series the last two days. That's the way it goes!! Look at D Flight pass rate out of the water test in the first series. That was a killer too. Didn't see too many dogs do it clean. I did stand next to one who did it though!!! PM me if you have any questions.
    "Perfection is the enemy of good enough" Vince Stone

  6. #6
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    If one wants to strive to obtain a Grand title, they are better off seeking the pros that are very successful in that game. Very few AMs pass, lots of time and money to get dropped for something that wouldnt matter in any other game. Its a special title no doubt but too risky for my pocket book to go at it without the pro advantage.
    Last edited by WBF; 10-16-2013 at 07:43 AM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member JoeOverby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate_C View Post
    The Master National is cumulative. One dog can have a handle in the first series and another can have a handle in the 2nd and both will be carried to the 3rd series but a third dog that has handles in both will be dropped. Same with blinds. Same can be said for Master Tests and finished tests. If you handle in one series the next better be clean.

    Is there something different about the grand scoring that is different then a Finished test? I mean besides the standard? Again this is not an attack on the grand but when a good pro brings in 12-15 well breed and very well trained dogs and comes away with 2 grand passes you are like &*(&*)^&*(&* what does a guy have to do to pass. Is the standard so tight that luck comes into play?
    That's just not true. A dog could legitimately handle in every series and still pass. Been there, seen it personally.

    HRC weekend tests aren't scored. There are no numbers. Its simply pass/fail. The Grand on the other hand is scored. 0,1,or 2. The scores are cumulative. You can only score ones once and you do not have enough points to continue on. A big hunt on a mark, a handle on a mark irregardless of cleanliness, reason, or proximity to a fall, a loose blind, or loose line manners will get you ones every time. 2 cast refusals, an excessive creep, vocalization in any amount, or a big hunt and a handle in the same series will get your homebound ticket punched.
    There is some luck involved, but more than that you can't handle in a series that nobody else is handling because there's gonna be one mark that everybody is handling on that grand judges do not take into consideration and you're going to need it there. There's no reason to be scared...historically the pass rate is around 12%...it is what it is...not many pass. Just gotta be OK with that before you go running it.
    Joe Overby
    Candler Creek Retrievers
    www.candlercreekretrievers.com
    GRHRCH UH "Hooch" MH (HRC 1500 pt. club)
    HRCH "Tater" MH

  8. #8
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    There's just not that much wiggly room in the Grand, You get 1's (marginal pass) and your done. You also got four sets of judges thus, they don't take into account what might've happened in other series, what you might've excelled in. They only care what you do under them, in their series, and the judges usually are very close in their thinking, so if they both give a 1 (you've got problems.. gulp) Then to determine if you move on they add different judges numbers, and they're aren't many numbers to add, just 0, 1 and 2, not many numbers to come up with a passing pt #. Where as You've got 1-10 to average in the master national. Is there luck involved, heck yes, but just to the point that you got to be good enough for the judges to give you 2's, which means you have to be just about perfect, in all 4 series, and keep your butt to the ground on the upland; to pass the grand. But hey there's 2 a year, and you've got ~10 years, for a dog (20 times); so you just got to be almost perfect twice . 2/20 =10%, and the pass rate =12% so every once in awhile some dogs-handler must get lucky . We won't even take into consideration amateur pass rates, wouldn't want to scare yah .

    Grand scoring
    1st must have judge combined (2) Score to continue =1+1,1+2, 2+2, how often to you think 1+2 happens?
    2nd must have combines (6), Score to continue =(1+1, 2+2),(1+2,1+2) (2+2,2+2)
    3rd must have (9) Lowest score to continue (1+1, 1+2, 2+2)
    4th must have (13) Lowest score to continue (1+1, 1+2, 2+2, 2+2)
    Total possible points for 1-4 series = 16 so theoretically you've got 3 pts to play around with, basically if 2 judge-sets give you 1+1 your done .
    You get passed that, you start to pray your dog doesn't break on the upland flush, which of course is No problem; after you've been running tests for a week, with no collar .

    So how many are we gonna lose in the Upland? I bet (~3-4 per flight), So I'm guessing ~63 qualifiers? Any other takers?
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 10-16-2013 at 02:11 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

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    Senior Member i_willie12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    There's just not that much wiggly room in the Grand, You get 1's (marginal pass) and your done. You also got four sets of judges thus, they don't take into account what might've happened in other series, what you might've excelled in, they only care what you do under them, in their series, and the judges usually are very close in their thinking, so if they both give a 1 ( you've got problems..gulp) Then to determine if you move on they add different judges numbers, and they're aren't many numbers to add, just 0, 1 and 2, not many number to come up with a passing %. Where as You've got 1-10 to average in the master national. Is there luck involved, heck yes, but just to the point that you got to be good enough for the judges to give you 2's, which means you have to be just about perfect, in all 5 series, to pass the grand. But hey there's 2 a year, and you've got ~10 years, for a dog (20 times); so you just got to be almost perfect twice . 2/20 =10%, and the pass rate =12% so every once in awhile some dogs-handler must get lucky . We won't even take into consideration amateur pass rates, wouldn't want to scare yah .

    Knowing all this... I still cant wait to get back to the grand!!! We've gone out in the 4th at Wisconsin and OK both times on the blind!!!!!!
    "Some people pride themselves on how far they can shoot ducks, others pride themselves on how close they can get them. I'm an other!!! "
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    HRCH Wilson's Grand Prairie Pintail
    http://wilsonsretrievers.com/

  10. #10
    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeOverby View Post
    ...historically the pass rate is around 12%...it is what it is...not many pass.
    Sounds like fun.........At least Phoenix City is pretty close to home.

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