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Thread: Hot Blinds - HT Rulebook pg 33

  1. #11
    Senior Member Billie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Would this constitute a violation of the rule stated on page 33?

    /Paul
    Yes I believe so
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  2. #12
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    "Page 33 - Whenever a blind is placed prior to a mark going down and it is to be run after the mark is retrieved, the blind shall never be placed in the same area of the fall or near enough to the gun station as to intentionally mislead the dog on its mark."


    Master Test
    Double Mark – First bird throw is flyer
    Blind in between the marks, roughly 25 yards from both falls and is hot. (bird planted)
    Instructions to handler – after both marks go down, pickup first mark of your choice, then run the blind, then pickup second mark.
    Judges actions : if flyer landed too close to blind, no bird was called and sent back 3 dogs.

    Would this constitute a violation of the rule stated on page 33?

    /Paul

    Not if the distance from line to marks created an AOF for each mark appreciably smaller than 50 yds in diameter. Scale of the test is key to determining its legality, if the marks were out 30-50 yds would you allow a 50 yd AOF (25yds either side of the bird location)?
    Last edited by blind ambition; 10-16-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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  3. #13
    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Sounds like it is doable! IMO
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Gun_Dog2002's Avatar
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    For the record, these marks were 100 yards or so. I ask this question, not as pro or dog trainer but as a judge. Two different hats. I try very hard to think of tests both ways. I read the rules and I try to judge by them and frankly my trainer hat has higher standards. I expect my dogs to be able to handle this. In no way do I want to demean another judge. However personally, with my judging hat on, and sadly with my 30 years of dog experience, I don't see how I could personally set a test like this and expect dogs to not get in trouble with this blind. It clearly, in my opinion was violating the rule I quoted and in my opinion this rule was added a few years ago due to this exact scenario. I've run hundreds of tests with more dogs than I can count, however for the purpose of rule discussion, if this doesn't provide an example of a hot blind that interferes with marks then what does? Why did we bother to implement this rule at all? I also ask myself, if marking is of primary importance, why would any judge put this test together. Remember the rule book says "marking is of primary importance," it does not say "pin-point marking in the face of huge distraction is of primary importance..." If the judges wanted to test a dogs skill, they should have added another mark, ran the blind first or last without it being hot and scored the dogs based on exhibiting their skills. That is my opinion, my opinion only and if I never judge another test because of it, too bad.

    /Paul
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  5. #15
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    Paul,
    If that was the same test I was gun'in, the flyer was the last bird down (Go Bird) on that double w/interrupted blind.
    Yes, the flyer was a bit tight to the blind (30-40yrds off line, upwind of the flyer), but seemed that the dawgs that marked the flyer were good to go. And the ones that had trouble w/the planted bird couldn't handle the dogs off it. Sunday's test was tight also......
    Damn doggie games anyway, made for some heavy cuts in each series for a HT.
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    Last edited by Gun Dawg; 10-16-2013 at 10:12 PM.

  6. #16
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    It's easy to trick a dog.
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    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Paul (Young) thanks, as always for your reply.
    Darrin Greene

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    Senior Member Karen Klotthor's Avatar
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    Paul, just a bad set up and with judges wanting to drop dogs, but still not a voilation. I would see no reason for this kind of set up other than to drop the dogs. I have done poison birds when I could not talk my co judge out of it, but only if the blind was a very good distance from any of the marks. That is not near as bad as sending your dog on a blind and here comes a bird and you have to no them off that bird and continue on to the blind.

  9. #19
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gun_Dog2002 View Post
    Page 33 - Whenever a blind is placed prior to a mark going down and it is to be run after the mark is retrieved, the blind shall never be placed in the same area of the fall or near enough to the gun station as to intentionally mislead the dog on its mark. This does not apply, however, to a bird that is thrown while a dog is running on a blind. Such a bird is not a trick, but a diversion bird for the dog on the blind and as such it is judged as a control situation, not as a mark.
    I think that if the judges were not trying "to intentionally mislead the dog", splitting hairs (and splitting infinitives), it would be legal. Still, if you have to call no bird on a flyer because of your hot blind, it is too close, IMO.

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