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The Qualifying Stake

11K views 34 replies 22 participants last post by  DoubleHaul 
#1 ·
I have the goal of entering the Qualifying stake in the spring. After reading the rule book and viewing a few Qual threads, I'm still wondering how they're typically structured.

Here's what I've garnered so far:

• Triple marks with at least one retired gun
• Honor
• Diversion birds are allowed as are diversion crates, guns, bird bags
• Land Blind
• Water Blind

Can you share your experiences with me? Are there shoreline blinds, delayed multiples with blinds to run before getting memory birds? Wipeout marks?

Are Quals as "busy" as a difficult Master test? Yes I will try to watch a couple, but they're usually in conflict with the derby.

Thanks,
Jen
 
#2 ·
First series is usually a triple on land, but sometimes a double. Sometimes a retired gin. Sometimes not. I have seen 2 recently that had a triple with double retired.

Second series is land blind. Could be through old fall, or near flyer statiom from first series (with flyer crates still there.

Third series is usually water blind. Depending on water, could be down the shore. Sould be over a point. Could be just open water.

Fouth series is water marking. Could be double or triple. Could be with retired gun or not. Depending on water cod be bridge bird.

There will be honor in one of the marking series
 
#3 ·
Double retired Triples on land and water. May as well throw one off the line and make your training all quads with multiethnic retireds
 
#5 ·

Sorry that no one is willing to answer your question directly.

Marks - doubles or triples. Maybe no, one or two retired. Typically, wide open.
Blind run in conjunction with marks for efficiency sake (too hard to get Pros, and Ams in the Open to get to Q 4 times)
Generally, blind off to side. I have not seen poison bird in Q, but am certain someone will want to try it. Have not seen blinds tight to bird crates, sacks, etc. Have seen blinds 20 yards off back side of flyer guns.
Water - on/off prominent point, or get in water stay in water close to shore
Have not seen wipeout birds. Have seen breaking birds (why?)


 
#6 ·
There is no comparison to a Master test.I have seen Quals where the pros said the first series was harder than the Open or Am.Typically the blinds aren't quite as technical as AA stakes but expect and train to the next level up.
Oh and no bows or neckerchiefs are allowed. :)
 
#7 ·
They never conflict with the derby, two different days and the next will not start untill the first has finished, because alot of times it's the same set of judges...

Are Quals as "busy" as a difficult Master test? Yes I will try to watch a couple, but they're usually in conflict with the derby.
Are they as busy?? Probably not but you need a better "trained" dog to be competitive in a Q than a Master, maybe not a better dog but a better "trained" dog.. With that being said I really enjoy judging Q's not so much Derby's..
 
#9 ·
Jen

I will be running both my dogs at the Corning trial the same weekend you do. I started out with my first lab running hunt tests but we are now running in the amateur and her son is running in the derby. I would be glad to share info with you if I see you that weekend.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for all of the information. Very helpful stuff. The Qual does conflict with Derby in my case. This time, the Qual is on Friday and Derby is on Saturday late morn, so I won't be there on Friday to see the Qual. In other cases, I was too scared to leave the Derby to watch the Qual when I could have.

Jeff E, I will have my clicker in my pocket and no one will know but you and me! But I will keep the pumpkin bandana in the car.

DEFINITELY not a minor stakes expert. And I have 6 months to train toward Qual. Luckily our climate is conducive to year round training.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for all of the information. Very helpful stuff. The Qual does conflict with Derby in my case. This time, the Qual is on Friday and Derby is on Saturday late morn, so I won't be there on Friday to see the Qual. In other cases, I was too scared to leave the Derby to watch the Qual when I could have.

Jeff E, I will have my clicker in my pocket and no one will know but you and me! But I will keep the pumpkin bandana in the car.

DEFINITELY not a minor stakes expert. And I have 6 months to train toward Qual. Luckily our climate is conducive to year round training.
Isnt that concealed and carry in your "hood" ?
 
#15 ·
No to argue with Ted but I have had quals this year which were tight and a blind behind the flier crates. Last trial retired two in both the land and water series. Also had an in line triple with a spread of at least 200 yards between birds and a 275+ yard middle retired bird.
 
#16 ·
No to argue with Ted but I have had quals this year which were tight and a blind behind the flier crates. Last trial retired two in both the land and water series. Also had an in line triple with a spread of at least 200 yards between birds and a 275+ yard middle retired bird.
When I am setting up a Q on the first series, I am hoping that there will be no retired guns. However, I may retire one or even two, if I need to, but two is very rare. I don't want them too tight, but again, a hip pocket is fairly standard in a Q around these parts and while I prefer not to, I have done it. I will run behind flyer crate if I need to on the land blind, but can usually find something better. So much depends on what the judges are given to work with and often the good grounds go to the AA stakes and the Q is run in the same place the derby was run the day before, so you are limited.

A Q blind, though is not an AA blind. If for example, you run tight to the flyer, I am not worried if Rover sucks over there (same goes for avoiding cover, running down a road, etc., since that is why they are there in the first place) but I want to see the handler control the dog and recover from whatever it is. On a water blind, I will likely set up a long (certainly by HT standards, but not by AA standards) angle entry but it won't be a tiny little sliver of water. It should be fairly black and white. I may ask that the dog get on and off a point or swim by one (but very rarely both) but again it will be more black and white than an AA blind. The line will either take much more of a point or go further off a point than an AA blind.
 
#21 ·
There are several factors that influence the degree of difficulty in a trial. These factors additionally figure into a "Q". The quality of the grounds, the number of entries (time) and the strength of the field. The key is having enough test that you can achieve separation. With good grounds, separation may be accomplished without retiring a gun or adding additional factors to a blind. With lessor grounds additional factors may be need to achieve separation.
 
#24 ·
You will see wide variations in qualifying tests based on the judges' theories of what a Q should be. If the judges are the type that view the Q as a way to get interested in the sport vs. those that believe that when a dog gets QAA'd they are essentially ready to start running an AA stake. I've seen them across the board, and I think that's why you are getting the varying answers. When I qualified one dog I trained, the water blind was one that the open had run the year before, minus about 20 yards of entry. It still had 80 yards of an angle entry into the water. The second dog that I trained and got qualified had a shore line blind.... there was a point, spits of land to go up and over, and a shoreline to skim. I will never forget how Niki took that cast towards the shore, delayed vocal back cast) and she skimmed it like a champ. the judges said they'd been waiting all day to see someone to run that blind like that. The next day had ice on the ground, cold stiff wind in alabama, believe it or not. My girl was the only one to get in the cheating edge of that water, and swim to the long retired up on the dam... and, she returned the same way. :D I remember the applause. and Jerry Day saying "wow, andy trained another good one." And, as Attar said to me, "I bet you were quick to correct him." You bet I was! (this was a momma trained dog, Jerry!").
 
#25 ·
X2 on JusticeDog's post.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Whelp, seems like there's variety in everything; If your daring you could just throw into a Am. or Open, if you Jam, I hear tell you become QAA, by default, and of course you get the added possibility of being able to win-place in the Am/Op ;).
 
#29 ·
I've run more Q's with several different dogs over the last 6 years than I like to admit. I've seen just about anything along the way except for a Quad, Poison Bird, or marks interupted by a blind.
Doubles none retired to Triples with two retired. Out of order flyer. Blinds up the middle, behind, tight, wide and even under the arc of the flyer. Dry pops. Land and Water blinds that were difficult and blinds that were so meatless you wondered why they bothered.

Double and a blind, triple and a blind, triples with a LB and a WB (its kind of fun to get three series run in one trip to the line).

A double with one retired and a blind seem to be the most common first/second combo series these days. While I am not a big fan of a double and a blind for the combo first two series (prefer that Q dogs have to count to 3), I understand why its necessary to keep the stake moving.

You enter the trial and run what they set up.

DP
 
#35 ·
No argument here, but I will point out that if you have a good HT dog and do a little work, mostly stretching them out and tighten up your blinds, you can do very well in a Q. The OHQ is becoming more popular at HTs around here but if they are not where you are, go ahead and give it a Q a try even at a FT. It is the most fun of all the FT stakes.
 
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