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Thread: What's up with the SRS, will it hang on?

  1. #21

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    I have seen more dogs break over a rubber duck than I have seen break on a live flyer at a field trial. I am pretty sure this is all Walt Disney's fault and that is the reason they use the rubber ducks. What the SRS needs is someone to train and prepare as hard as Mr. Steinman does. Like the Yankees need the Red Sox, Steinman needs someone to actually challenge him. You show up and he will beat you like the USA Mens basketball team does when they play Guam. Until some pro can step up to the plate, this might as well be renamed the Steinman Retriever Series. Right now it is a one man butt kicking show. Doesn't really make good TV unless your name is Lyle. It would be great to see the sport get back to its 100 plus dog classics. They just might be something of past like the 8 track tape.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    I would like to see "Lyle" linem up at an open, that would be impressive.
    "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching"....J.C. Watts

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    Not talking about some dead old draggled out pen raised hen. When you think you have a marking fool on your hands - watch someone that knows the game turn that marking fool into a plain old fool with a fully operational, just fired up biggo Kansas style rooster screaming his head off and a full 7 gun salute to send his noisy ass to the afterworld. If you have one that doesn't come a bunch unglued- give him to the little girl down the street and start over. The sad part is that it is almost axiomatic that the better the dog the more influenced by live birds. If you haven't managed to see the effects an exciting flyer can have on a dog well.................

    You need to get out more regards

    Bubba
    Absolutely agree that a filer can blow the wheels off some dogs. But the statement was they need to use birds at the test. Not all tests that use birds use fliers.

    As for the statement about having an unglued dog on a flier is horrible and that's what's wrong with some of the ideals today in the dog world. I run akc and ukc hunt test and am beginning to dabble with qual work. In no way in any scenario do I want a dog that comes unglued or idiotic when a live bird is thrown......ever. (As a coach once told me, "act like youve been there before"). I saw a FC AFC dog that lost her mind when the flier was thrown this weekend and decided to stroll 10 yds away from the handler To get a better view before returning to the handlers side before being sent. I have no want to in my life to have a dog that finds that necessary. FC or not. Plenty of damn good dogs can mark without going full retard on a flier.

  4. #24
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    Where does Mr. Steinman come up with all these awesome dogs? Lots of guys compete and beat him. Some just choose to run only when it's televised. I hear field trial washouts can be pretty nice dogs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Williams View Post
    I have seen more dogs break over a rubber duck than I have seen break on a live flyer at a field trial. I am pretty sure this is all Walt Disney's fault and that is the reason they use the rubber ducks. What the SRS needs is someone to train and prepare as hard as Mr. Steinman does. Like the Yankees need the Red Sox, Steinman needs someone to actually challenge him. You show up and he will beat you like the USA Mens basketball team does when they play Guam. Until some pro can step up to the plate, this might as well be renamed the Steinman Retriever Series. Right now it is a one man butt kicking show. Doesn't really make good TV unless your name is Lyle. It would be great to see the sport get back to its 100 plus dog classics. They just might be something of past like the 8 track tape.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Toti View Post
    Absolutely agree that a filer can blow the wheels off some dogs. But the statement was they need to use birds at the test. Not all tests that use birds use fliers.

    As for the statement about having an unglued dog on a flier is horrible and that's what's wrong with some of the ideals today in the dog world. I run akc and ukc hunt test and am beginning to dabble with qual work. In no way in any scenario do I want a dog that comes unglued or idiotic when a live bird is thrown......ever. (As a coach once told me, "act like youve been there before"). I saw a FC AFC dog that lost her mind when the flier was thrown this weekend and decided to stroll 10 yds away from the handler To get a better view before returning to the handlers side before being sent. I have no want to in my life to have a dog that finds that necessary. FC or not. Plenty of damn good dogs can mark without going full retard on a flier.
    Hate to argue with you, but every All-Age marking test has a flyer, unless it is being held somewhere that flyers are not allowed. To compare the old fall of rubber ducks and real ducks is not even comparing apples to oranges! If you haven't had a dog lock on a flyer and look at nothing else, you will!! Not saying your dog falls under this catagory, but I would much rather have one creeping 10 yards than I had looking at it's toe nails when the birds are being thrown.
    Brandon Edmondson

  6. #26
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Toti View Post
    Dead serious. A shot flier possibly a distraction.....a dead old ragged bird, not really for a high level dog. If the dog is trained to the level it needs to be it should be able to run a blind off a poison bird no matter if it's a dead bird, live bird, or a dry cow chip. If the dog can't handle drag back or poison birds then it shouldn't be running at that level.

    I just don't see it being a game changer at a high level.

    But back to the question I asked. Why do they need to use real birds? What challenge does a real bird give to a dog thats competing at a high level that a dokken doesn't?

    Does a dog mark a dead bird differently than it does a bumper or a dokken?
    Not arguing whether they need to use live birds or not. It is their venue they can do what they want. I will say that if you don't buy that live birds, with drag back, old falls, flyer influence, etc., doesn't make any difference with good dogs, you need to watch more opens. Good open judges can make some of the best dogs look like their first JH test.

    Now the one thing about the rubber ducks is that the in your face ones can make even a steady dog go nuts when they bounce three feet after landing

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=Brandoned;1156256] every All-Age marking test has a flyer, unless it is being held somewhere that flyers are not allowed.

    Not comparing it to an All-Age test. Comparing it to all dog sports as a whole. Not all tests that use real birds, use real live birds.

    If you'd rather have a dog that creeps 10yds when it sees a live bird that is your choice. I use my dog for the original intention they were bred for(hunting) and to run hunt tests. A dog that creeps 10yds when it sees a live bird doesn't have any place under my roof or in my blind unless it likes #2 shot in the rear. It's not unrealistic to get a fired up dog that knows how to sit.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    Not arguing whether they need to use live birds or not. It is their venue they can do what they want. I will say that if you don't buy that live birds, with drag back, old falls, flyer influence, etc., doesn't make any difference with good dogs, you need to watch more opens. Good open judges can make some of the best dogs look like their first JH test.

    Now the one thing about the rubber ducks is that the in your face ones can make even a steady dog go nuts when they bounce three feet after landing
    I buy that about real birds to an extent but, I don't see them switching to real birds and then the next Saturday everyone who has been sitting out shows up to run. Its not like out of a 30 dog flight they are all within 5 points of each other because its a gimme test or the dogs aren't having any issues. The avery/drake/dokken fake birds are doing the job.

  9. #29
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    But back to the main post. Will it hang on???? I am located in SW Louisiana and I talk to a good bit of trainers and handlers that are interested but are just won't make the move and try them. If there were some within a reasonable drive(<5hrs) I would gladly go give em a try. I have even brought the idea of putting an event on to our Club but it didn't go far. Maybe a joint venture between 2 or 3 clubs would make it a little more doable.

  10. #30
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    Don't know you or your dogs, so don't take this personally. An older gentleman told me when I first started running "there are 2 types of dogs, those that have broke & those that haven't broken yet". If a dog coming out of your blind is going to get #2 shot in the rear, please swallow your pride & invest in 50 cents worth of rope.

    I own a few dogs that earlier in their careers were creeping fools. At a test or trial they were always creeping. Add a place mat or an e-collar & these dogs were steady. Sat many a morning while big flocks worked into the decoys with no movement.

    The plastic ducks certainly can cause creeping & breaking. It is most effective skipped or bounced a few feet in front of the line. Try it with a shackled duck one time & see the difference. You won't see that in a test or trial. Not only are shackled ducks against the rules but there wouldn't be any dogs left to run the next series.
    Last edited by fishduck; 10-23-2013 at 06:15 AM. Reason: Quote was attributed to wrong poster
    Mark Land

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