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Thread: What's up with the SRS, will it hang on?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    This advice is worth what you are paying for it. 500 points is a big commitment of time, effort and money. The owner of the dog you are running isn't going to be pleased that his pride & joy is being slandered on the Internet. The retriever world is VERY small.

    Carry on.
    The owner knows how big of a knuckle head she is, matter of fact he forewarned before taking the dog. That's why he'd rather have someone else spend their time on her. As far as the sire he was a nice dog no slander sent. Matter of fact he was a MH and GRHRCH. Great dog to watch, he was automatic when he came to the line!

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lonnie Spann View Post
    Nick,

    Guess what...I have a dog with 510 points! Does that say anything about me or my dog? Maybe so maybe not. When you train one and get 500 points come back and chat with the big dogs. Until then Grasshopper, wax on, wax off.

    Lonnie Spann
    Congrats on that Lonnie! Wish I could have saw it this weekend but decided to run Cajun's because of logistics. Really wanted to make the Cleo Test because my pups out of Gator Point way down the line and I wanted to contribute back....maybe next year. I don't have the want to chase 500 right now because even if my dog gets it I'm not breeding her bc of health clearances. Just don't want to sink the time and money into it with no possible return. I'll just hang back with my HRCH and watch y'all chase the pernts.

    So long amigos on this post. Hope to see y'all on a bucket soon! After hunting season of course! And maybe at the SRS duck dog challenge in May in Bama!
    Last edited by Nick Toti; 10-23-2013 at 12:47 PM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Toti View Post
    Absolutely agree that a filer can blow the wheels off some dogs. But the statement was they need to use birds at the test. Not all tests that use birds use fliers.

    As for the statement about having an unglued dog on a flier is horrible and that's what's wrong with some of the ideals today in the dog world. I run akc and ukc hunt test and am beginning to dabble with qual work. In no way in any scenario do I want a dog that comes unglued or idiotic when a live bird is thrown......ever. (As a coach once told me, "act like youve been there before"). I saw a FC AFC dog that lost her mind when the flier was thrown this weekend and decided to stroll 10 yds away from the handler To get a better view before returning to the handlers side before being sent. I have no want to in my life to have a dog that finds that necessary. FC or not. Plenty of damn good dogs can mark without going full retard on a flier.
    Nick you say you run AKC hunt tests, however EE says you scratched in both of the tests you entered. Had you actually showed up and run you may have a better understanding of what difference real birds{especially shot flyers} can do to a dog.

    My guess is that coach who told you to "act like youve been there before" would also have told you that if you yourself haven't been there before, then it would be best for you to not to preach to those who have been there before

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Nick you say you run AKC hunt tests, however EE says you scratched in both of the tests you entered. Had you actually showed up and run you may have a better understanding of what difference real birds{especially shot flyers} can do to a dog.

    My guess is that coach who told you to "act like youve been there before" would also have told you that if you yourself haven't been there before, then it would be best for you to not to preach to those who have been there before


    Little info for ya follower: EE isnt the bible on who has ran a dog before there are changes to handlers all the time that don't go on there.
    As for fliers I'm lucky enough to train with a good friend that has a pen full 60-70 mallards. He insists we shoot them weekly. Our dogs see plenty of fliers.

    If you don't have anything to contribute about dogs or the topic then troll on.
    But if you insist on following link me up on twitter or Instagram.
    Last edited by Nick Toti; 10-24-2013 at 07:26 AM.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Gordy Weigel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nate_C View Post
    I love the concept of the SRS but it seems like it is in some ways dying out. There is one in Tennessee next weekend and only 16 dogs where in the open from 3 pros and 6 amateurs. They have had a few events around here (TN,NC,SC) and there seems like there have been a few more this year. However, it looks like it is getting smaller and smaller. It use to be that there where 7-8 PROs that made it there bread and butter which was a problem in and of itself but now it seems to be down to 4-5 on a regular basis. Anyone have any insight?
    Stick a fork in it, the SRS is done!

  6. #66
    Senior Member Raymond Little's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordy Weigel View Post
    Stick a fork in it, the SRS is done!
    Never got into it, mechanics werre extremely boring to me. The challenge with dog work is seeing them dig out a tough punch bird on their own.
    Tests weren't marking tests but handling tests which only proves they can handle to a mark.
    "Character is doing the right thing when nobody is watching"....J.C. Watts

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    A pro's opportunity cost is to high to play the SRS game, therefore there is a lack of interest.
    HRCH Mr. Buck's Delta Do MH "Dee"

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Toti View Post
    Little info for ya follower: EE isnt the bible on who has ran a dog before there are changes to handlers all the time that don't go on there.
    As for fliers I'm lucky enough to train with a good friend that has a pen full 60-70 mallards. He insists we shoot them weekly. Our dogs see plenty of fliers.

    If you don't have anything to contribute about dogs or the topic then troll on.
    But if you insist on following link me up on twitter or Instagram.
    Excuse me for walking in your shadow PLAYA, but if you'd be so kind to indulge my uninitiated opinions I have a few comments to your learned and vastly experienced observations.

    First of all I was kind of of the opinion that as far as the source for which events a person has run that EE was in effect kind of "The Bible" Please let me know what actually is the source. While you are at it why don't you fill us all in on the 100's of times you have run AKC HT's FT's and National Championships as a "substitute handler.

    As to your next comment about your good friend with a pen full of flyers that he insists you shoot weekly; my only suggestion is that you educate your good friend as to his ignorance and spendthrift ways. He obviously isn't aware of your pronouncement based on your ______{fill in the blank 10's, 100's, 1000's+} trips to the line that "Live fliers don't really have any influence on well trained upper level dogs" Ask him why he is uselessly wasting all that time effort and money on live birds. I think it is kind of you to share your brilliance and associate with someone who is so beneath you mentally.

    I have very little experience with thread topic of the SRS. Unlike you who has probably been a substitute handler for Steinman in all of his wins I have only run a handful or so of them. I actually was fortunate enough to have won the largest SRS ever that was held in Grand Island Ne.{At least I think it was me that ran my dog; was I having a dream and were you actually the substitute handler for me??} Now I am confused. Help me sensei!!!

    Let me focus on the very first SRS that I{or was it you?} ran. It was held in Miami Ok. The first series was a double with a long blind run up the middle. The go bird was a big black and white rubber duckie that was 150-200 yds out and landed in a gravelled area. The rubber duckie was clearly visible from the line. My dog went straight to it. When he got there he nudged it with his nose; and then went into hunt mode looking for a bird in the area. He accumulated a bunch of points that prevented him from a chance at winning the event I later learned that area housed many actual {non rubber} birds. This is a dog who had never ever before blinked a bird; nor has he ever since blinked a bird. Call me stupid but based on that experience I believe he would have instantly picked up that bird up and brought it back to me{had it in fact been a REAL BIRD!!!!} To me that is just one of many examples of how real birds do in fact have a different and powerful effect on dogs. Many people who run Canadian Trials would agree with my flawed logic. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US WITH YOUR WISDOM AND YEARS OF EXPERIENCE!!

    I can't wait for you to show me and my ignorant comrades North of the border the errors in our thinking
    Thanks

    PS Until now I didn't do Twitter or Instagram, but I can tell that needs to change pronto

  9. #69
    Senior Member crackerd's Avatar
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    Flip side of "errors in our thinking" is our "canarder"'s carrying on not just at the insignificance of live birds in trials but of trial dogs' merits. Intel is he's taken a page from Milner's book and turned (marketed) it to his own advantage - as noted down there in Louise-iana. Jase, is that you - going breakaway from the family bidness (and going black ops on EE - and as a phantom handler) to start..."Rubber Duck Dynasty?"

    MG

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Excuse me for walking in your shadow PLAYA, but if you'd be so kind to indulge my uninitiated opinions I have a few comments to your learned and vastly experienced observations.

    First of all I was kind of of the opinion that as far as the source for which events a person has run that EE was in effect kind of "The Bible" Please let me know what actually is the source. While you are at it why don't you fill us all in on the 100's of times you have run AKC HT's FT's and National Championships as a "substitute handler.

    As to your next comment about your good friend with a pen full of flyers that he insists you shoot weekly; my only suggestion is that you educate your good friend as to his ignorance and spendthrift ways. He obviously isn't aware of your pronouncement based on your ______{fill in the blank 10's, 100's, 1000's+} trips to the line that "Live fliers don't really have any influence on well trained upper level dogs" Ask him why he is uselessly wasting all that time effort and money on live birds. I think it is kind of you to share your brilliance and associate with someone who is so beneath you mentally.

    I have very little experience with thread topic of the SRS. Unlike you who has probably been a substitute handler for Steinman in all of his wins I have only run a handful or so of them. I actually was fortunate enough to have won the largest SRS ever that was held in Grand Island Ne.{At least I think it was me that ran my dog; was I having a dream and were you actually the substitute handler for me??} Now I am confused. Help me sensei!!!

    Let me focus on the very first SRS that I{or was it you?} ran. It was held in Miami Ok. The first series was a double with a long blind run up the middle. The go bird was a big black and white rubber duckie that was 150-200 yds out and landed in a gravelled area. The rubber duckie was clearly visible from the line. My dog went straight to it. When he got there he nudged it with his nose; and then went into hunt mode looking for a bird in the area. He accumulated a bunch of points that prevented him from a chance at winning the event I later learned that area housed many actual {non rubber} birds. This is a dog who had never ever before blinked a bird; nor has he ever since blinked a bird. Call me stupid but based on that experience I believe he would have instantly picked up that bird up and brought it back to me{had it in fact been a REAL BIRD!!!!} To me that is just one of many examples of how real birds do in fact have a different and powerful effect on dogs. Many people who run Canadian Trials would agree with my flawed logic. PLEASE ENLIGHTEN US WITH YOUR WISDOM AND YEARS OF EXPERIENCE!!

    I can't wait for you to show me and my ignorant comrades North of the border the errors in our thinking
    Thanks

    PS Until now I didn't do Twitter or Instagram, but I can tell that needs to change pronto
    I never stated "live fliers don't have any influence on upper level dogs". I agreed that fliers can blow the wheels off some dogs and dogs will all eventually break. My first post asked a question how would a bird sway a well trained dog with drag back or poison bird in a SRS event. By that I meant using dead birds, thinking they wouldn't make the jump from rubber ducks to shooting fliers. I was literally asking a question and showing my point of view so that people with the experience in SRS(that started the debate with the comment, "they need to use real birds")could contribute with some comments on why. You and others responded to my question with a helpful hand of, "are you serious?" Yes, I was dead serious I asked a question.
    If you have such knowledge then share it. I think(dont know) that's originally one of the reasons this site was set up for.

    Dogs blinking rubber ducks because they're looking for a real bird? I can see where that could be an issue. I've seen it in my own before during training. Dog picks up the marks with real birds and then blinks the blind because it's a pile of bumpers and the dog is looking for(or wants) a real bird.

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