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What's up with the SRS, will it hang on?

17K views 72 replies 31 participants last post by  Raymond Little 
#1 ·
I love the concept of the SRS but it seems like it is in some ways dying out. There is one in Tennessee next weekend and only 16 dogs where in the open from 3 pros and 6 amateurs. They have had a few events around here (TN,NC,SC) and there seems like there have been a few more this year. However, it looks like it is getting smaller and smaller. It use to be that there where 7-8 PROs that made it there bread and butter which was a problem in and of itself but now it seems to be down to 4-5 on a regular basis. Anyone have any insight?
 
#2 ·
The SRS will continue. The event this weekend is a victim of an almost "perfect storm". Pros are still in post Grand mode. Many also ran the Master National. After 2 different weeks of that level of stress a break is needed. Most of the SRS pros are hunt testers first & almost all run the Grand & or the Master National. There is an AKC test with an OH Q this weekend.

I ran the event in Tennessee last year & had a blast. Would be running it this year on any other weekend. From the guys I train with we took 3 amateurs & 1 pro. 5 amateur dogs & that many pro dogs. All of us will be working/running at the cattle ranch this weekend.
 
#3 ·
I also noticed that they have not been on TV either... according to their facebook page that is being resolved though. I agree with you, the format is awesome and the dogs are incredible being so versatile between the hunt test and trial concepts. I am in the midwest so the venue doesn't get up my way, but i'd love to see more of it. Curious to see what kind of responses come on this thread.
 
#4 ·
I think they need a super national and some sort of numbers behind a title to make I worth attending anymore
 
#6 ·
Yep! I think the lack of real birds eliminates some of the real challenges our retrievers face at HT, FTs and hunting - and keeps some of us who might otherwise take a shot at SRS on the sidelines. I judged and SRS event this summer & would have much preferred real birds. The downside, I guess, is bird costs but with the reduced Avery participation, there might not be a real downside with SRS unless there is some other contractual obligations involved.
 
#16 ·
The original event was the ESPN Outdoor Games and they used Docken's. One of the first, if not the first event was at Tom Docken's place in Northfield.

Whay or when in morphed to the SRS I do not know, but the rubber birds were used because of being broadcast. Avery dropped out a couple of years ago. Our Club event was down quite a bit this year and we have used Dockens for the past 3 years.

The disdussion has come up about using birds, but it does present some problems.
 
#8 ·
From what I hear and take it for what its worth was that they used dummies instead of birds for PETA. Being aired on ESPN didnt want the hassle of dealing with them by using actual birds. Just rumor I have heard take it for what its worth.
 
#14 ·
From what I hear and take it for what its worth was that they used dummies instead of birds for PETA. Being aired on ESPN didnt want the hassle of dealing with them by using actual birds. Just rumor I have heard take it for what its worth.
That actually makes total sense... without question there would be someone making a stink about dead birds being retrieved on television...
 
#9 ·
Good to see you still on Brett, hope all is good with the family and Marley..... How is he doing?
 
#11 ·
Club events that are not televised can choose to use real birds.

A lot of pro handlers are preparing for the Crown Championship Halloween weekend.
 
#20 ·
Not talking about some dead old draggled out pen raised hen. When you think you have a marking fool on your hands - watch someone that knows the game turn that marking fool into a plain old fool with a fully operational, just fired up biggo Kansas style rooster screaming his head off and a full 7 gun salute to send his noisy ass to the afterworld. If you have one that doesn't come a bunch unglued- give him to the little girl down the street and start over. The sad part is that it is almost axiomatic that the better the dog the more influenced by live birds. If you haven't managed to see the effects an exciting flyer can have on a dog well.................

You need to get out more regards

Bubba
 
#23 ·
Absolutely agree that a filer can blow the wheels off some dogs. But the statement was they need to use birds at the test. Not all tests that use birds use fliers.

As for the statement about having an unglued dog on a flier is horrible and that's what's wrong with some of the ideals today in the dog world. I run akc and ukc hunt test and am beginning to dabble with qual work. In no way in any scenario do I want a dog that comes unglued or idiotic when a live bird is thrown......ever. (As a coach once told me, "act like youve been there before"). I saw a FC AFC dog that lost her mind when the flier was thrown this weekend and decided to stroll 10 yds away from the handler To get a better view before returning to the handlers side before being sent. I have no want to in my life to have a dog that finds that necessary. FC or not. Plenty of damn good dogs can mark without going full retard on a flier.
 
#21 ·
I have seen more dogs break over a rubber duck than I have seen break on a live flyer at a field trial. I am pretty sure this is all Walt Disney's fault and that is the reason they use the rubber ducks. What the SRS needs is someone to train and prepare as hard as Mr. Steinman does. Like the Yankees need the Red Sox, Steinman needs someone to actually challenge him. You show up and he will beat you like the USA Mens basketball team does when they play Guam. Until some pro can step up to the plate, this might as well be renamed the Steinman Retriever Series. Right now it is a one man butt kicking show. Doesn't really make good TV unless your name is Lyle. It would be great to see the sport get back to its 100 plus dog classics. They just might be something of past like the 8 track tape.
 
#29 ·
But back to the main post. Will it hang on???? I am located in SW Louisiana and I talk to a good bit of trainers and handlers that are interested but are just won't make the move and try them. If there were some within a reasonable drive(<5hrs) I would gladly go give em a try. I have even brought the idea of putting an event on to our Club but it didn't go far. Maybe a joint venture between 2 or 3 clubs would make it a little more doable.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Don't know you or your dogs, so don't take this personally. An older gentleman told me when I first started running "there are 2 types of dogs, those that have broke & those that haven't broken yet". If a dog coming out of your blind is going to get #2 shot in the rear, please swallow your pride & invest in 50 cents worth of rope.

I own a few dogs that earlier in their careers were creeping fools. At a test or trial they were always creeping. Add a place mat or an e-collar & these dogs were steady. Sat many a morning while big flocks worked into the decoys with no movement.

The plastic ducks certainly can cause creeping & breaking. It is most effective skipped or bounced a few feet in front of the line. Try it with a shackled duck one time & see the difference. You won't see that in a test or trial. Not only are shackled ducks against the rules but there wouldn't be any dogs left to run the next series.
 
#33 ·
The bird question always comes up when discussing the Srs. If they used real birds how many that use that as their reason for not running it would actually run? Not many, if any. Most FT people (diehards) will not cross over and run Srs. They are the ones that live and breath the white coat game. (I respect that and wish I could afford that luxury)

To the op, I think the srs will survive. Too many people look for a game to play once they have the mh/hrch qaa on their dog without the means or dog to run the open. I've been away from the game for the past 2 1/2 years and am running tomorrow in Mansfield tn. Looking forward to the fun set ups and a good dose of humility when I go down in flames. Haven't run any event since may 2011, and running a dog I got last Friday, should make for a fun time.
 
#35 · (Edited)
It's the same debate, over & over, regarding birds. When I offered my opinion it was in regards to my potential participation. I like SRS but I train for FTs & I hunt. I use real birds every day for training. I don't have time or the inclination to train with ATBs or such because they will not be seen in the games I play. You have to train with those artificials if you want to be successful in SRS. An ATB can be as difficult to dig out of heavy cover as a hen pheasant esp. if a dog isn't well trained on ATBs & isn't conditioned to that smell. Without weeks of training on ATBs my dogs would blink them while looking for a bird, so I don't participate. I think ATBs can enable SRS judges to throw birds in closer proximity without the same challenge as a cross-wind setup using birds, esp. in marshy setups where drag-back in addition to close proximity would make fall area distinction virtually impossible. Live flyers present a distinct challenge of their own, unlike anything an artificial can present. It's just a different game, birds vs artificials. And I don't train using artificials, so while I might be otherwise interested in SRS, since they don't use birds I'm not. And I think I'm like some other FTers, some of us might play (& some do) occasionally if birds were used. JMO....
 
#41 ·
Lonnie,

1) you can train a dog not to break or creep, sometimes yep
2) breaking and creeping is inherently bred into some dogs, Sometimes yep. Example I am helping train a HRCH MH right now with happy feet. Her momma had em and so does her sister. 3 out of 4 dogs(that I wont name their FC AFC sire bc of name calling) I've seen run in the last month, act like theyre standing on hot coals at the line. Not a coincidence, Genetic. FYI dont breed that dog you brought to the grand.....please! Haha Jk jk
3) breaking and creeping is inherently bred into some dogs but you can change your training (if you aren't too proud)and correct the problem? You can try whatevers neccesary(roping em at a test, beating the snot out of em, or burning em up)but it more than likey wont fix genetics
 
#43 ·
I bet that Mark will be glad to know that if he changes his training methods, Annie could dramatically add HRC points to 500+ she already has and maybe add the 3rd Master National plate. Rose could possibly reach 500 and add 2 more plates to the 1 she got this year.

Lets recap this thread Friday night after the Q while we are sitting around the White House.
 
#51 · (Edited)
If you're gauging a good dog and trainer by its ability to achieve 500 please move on. Th HRCH MH I'm working with and running is about to get her 500 points and I wouldn't buy the dog for $500.

You can run a dog with a 50% pass rate and still hit 500 points if you want to spend the money.

And no I don't own a dog that has 500 points. No want to at this time either. But to each his own.
 
#52 ·
If we're gauging a good dog and trainer by its ability to achieve 500 please move on. Th HRCH MH I'm working with and running is about to get her 500 points and I wouldn't buy the dog for $500.
Then you should obviously change your training methods, run more Senior tests, and ship the dog off to someone who won't breed it, based on your own logic.
 
#60 ·
Nick,

Guess what...I have a dog with 510 points! Does that say anything about me or my dog? Maybe so maybe not. When you train one and get 500 points come back and chat with the big dogs. Until then Grasshopper, wax on, wax off.

Lonnie Spann
 
#62 · (Edited)
Congrats on that Lonnie! Wish I could have saw it this weekend but decided to run Cajun's because of logistics. Really wanted to make the Cleo Test because my pups out of Gator Point way down the line and I wanted to contribute back....maybe next year. I don't have the want to chase 500 right now because even if my dog gets it I'm not breeding her bc of health clearances. Just don't want to sink the time and money into it with no possible return. I'll just hang back with my HRCH and watch y'all chase the pernts.

So long amigos on this post. Hope to see y'all on a bucket soon! After hunting season of course! And maybe at the SRS duck dog challenge in May in Bama!
 
#59 ·
Coming from a strictly amateur trainer here: The first time I saw a flier shot was about 18 years ago. It surprised me then because I hadn't been in the retriever training arena before.

A few years later, some some animal group played a video of the hounds shredding a fox at the end of a hunt in England while the hunters cheered on. That video so shocked the English people, it resulted in a nationwide ban on fox hunting a very short time later that has never been reversed.

For myself, I buy and use birds for training and also think it is important to have real birds for events.

However, in this Youtube day and age, I am afraid it is only a matter of time before PETA or someone else assembles a video montage of necks being wrung the morning of a hunt test or fliers being shot at close range and it goes viral.

At that point, there will be no reasonable debate or discussion in the news, it will be too late. People will only know they are outraged and some politician will feel the need to do something about it.

For these reasons, I think it is wise to use bumpers at the SRS or any other test if there is a possibility of it ending up on TV or online.

Tom
 
#66 ·
Never got into it, mechanics werre extremely boring to me. The challenge with dog work is seeing them dig out a tough punch bird on their own.
Tests weren't marking tests but handling tests which only proves they can handle to a mark.
 
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