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Thread: What's up with the SRS, will it hang on?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    Don't know you or your dogs, so don't take this personally. An older gentleman told me when I first started running "there are 2 types of dogs, those that have broke & those that haven't broken yet". If a dog coming out of your blind is going to get #2 shot in the rear, please swallow your pride & invest in 50 cents worth of rope.

    I own a few dogs that earlier in their careers were creeping fools. At a test or trial they were always creeping. Add a place mat or an e-collar & these dogs were steady. Sat many a morning while big flocks worked into the decoys with no movement.

    The plastic ducks certainly can cause creeping & breaking. It is most effective skipped or bounced a few feet in front of the line. Try it with a shackled duck one time & see the difference. You won't see that in a test or trial. Not only are shackled ducks against the rules but there wouldn't be any dogs left to run the next series.
    No doubt they all break. But break often and creep very often? Change your training or if you're too proud for that then send the dog packing....preferrably to someone who is smart enough not to breed it.

  2. #32
    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    I always heard it was to avoid problems with animal rights groups with the events shown on TV. Seems like the judges are able to get what they need to see by using the plastic birds.

    Never run one but got plans to try it next spring.

  3. #33
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    The bird question always comes up when discussing the Srs. If they used real birds how many that use that as their reason for not running it would actually run? Not many, if any. Most FT people (diehards) will not cross over and run Srs. They are the ones that live and breath the white coat game. (I respect that and wish I could afford that luxury)

    To the op, I think the srs will survive. Too many people look for a game to play once they have the mh/hrch qaa on their dog without the means or dog to run the open. I've been away from the game for the past 2 1/2 years and am running tomorrow in Mansfield tn. Looking forward to the fun set ups and a good dose of humility when I go down in flames. Haven't run any event since may 2011, and running a dog I got last Friday, should make for a fun time.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Duckquilizer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    Don't know you or your dogs, so don't take this personally. An older gentleman told me when I first started running "there are 2 types of dogs, those that have broke & those that haven't broken yet". If a dog coming out of your blind is going to get #2 shot in the rear, please swallow your pride & invest in 50 cents worth of rope.

    I own a few dogs that earlier in their careers were creeping fools. At a test or trial they were always creeping. Add a place mat or an e-collar & these dogs were steady. Sat many a morning while big flocks worked into the decoys with no movement.

    The plastic ducks certainly can cause creeping & breaking. It is most effective skipped or bounced a few feet in front of the line. Try it with a shackled duck one time & see the difference. You won't see that in a test or trial. Not only are shackled ducks against the rules but there wouldn't be any dogs left to run the next series.
    Nothing like the "Killer X-over" with two skipped teal 15 yrds from the line to make a steady dog crazy...
    Kendall Layne

    HR(2xHRCH) Ashland's Big Black Ruby to Go SH
    Dorie's Lady of the Lake(1K bird club)

    Never play leap frog with a unicorn.

  5. #35
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    It's the same debate, over & over, regarding birds. When I offered my opinion it was in regards to my potential participation. I like SRS but I train for FTs & I hunt. I use real birds every day for training. I don't have time or the inclination to train with ATBs or such because they will not be seen in the games I play. You have to train with those artificials if you want to be successful in SRS. An ATB can be as difficult to dig out of heavy cover as a hen pheasant esp. if a dog isn't well trained on ATBs & isn't conditioned to that smell. Without weeks of training on ATBs my dogs would blink them while looking for a bird, so I don't participate. I think ATBs can enable SRS judges to throw birds in closer proximity without the same challenge as a cross-wind setup using birds, esp. in marshy setups where drag-back in addition to close proximity would make fall area distinction virtually impossible. Live flyers present a distinct challenge of their own, unlike anything an artificial can present. It's just a different game, birds vs artificials. And I don't train using artificials, so while I might be otherwise interested in SRS, since they don't use birds I'm not. And I think I'm like some other FTers, some of us might play (& some do) occasionally if birds were used. JMO....
    Last edited by Granddaddy; 10-23-2013 at 08:08 AM.
    David Didier, GA

  6. #36
    Senior Member Nate_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Allen View Post
    Where does Mr. Steinman come up with all these awesome dogs? Lots of guys compete and beat him. Some just choose to run only when it's televised. I hear field trial washouts can be pretty nice dogs.
    You are right he does get most of the top dogs he runs in the SRS from FT pros as washouts. After running a few SRS the 5 or 6 pros that run them figured out the needed more long marking ability and it was easier to get a FT washout and cut them down as hunt test dogs rather then try to get one of their HT dogs to do a 350 yard retired mark. To be fair to Steinman and the others that run SRS, the SRS is an occasional thing. Their program is generally geared to HT and the Grand. If they run 30 dogs only 4-5 are targeting the SRS events. Why would you change your program for a small portion of your/ your clients needs. Washouts make sense. They are usually QAA which is mostly what you see in SRS so they can do that and they usually have a bit less drive so they can be cut down to do HT work. Steinman and the others pick up a few for their clients that want to run SRS then teach them the HT game which is tricky in it's own right.

    The same could be said for many of the FT pros. Alan Pleasant gets a lot of 24-26 month old dogs that have 20 plus derby points and a Qual win or two. No one says he is less of a trainer because of it. His focus is taking them from there to FC and the nationals which is huge. I am not saying one is better then the other. What I am saying is there is nothing wrong with going out and getting the right talent for the job to keep your focus on what you do best.

    To say people don't enter SRS because they are afraid of Steinman is laughable. I would bet Steinman would say that too.
    Last edited by Nate_C; 10-23-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Toti View Post
    No doubt they all break. But break often and creep very often? Change your training or if you're too proud for that then send the dog packing....preferrably to someone who is smart enough not to breed it.
    So please clear this up for me, are you saying:
    1) you can train a dog not to break or creep,
    2) breaking and creeping is inherently bred into some dogs, or
    3) breaking and creeping is inherently bred into some dogs but you can change your training (if you aren't too proud) and correct the problem?

    Just a little confused after reading all of your posts.

    Thanks,
    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

    Member of CAHRC and North AL HRC. I train with AND AM FRIENDS WITH: Fishduck, Laidback, Splash_Em, RF2, Drake2014, Claimsadj, Hooked on Quackers, RookieTrainer and Roseberry.

    HRCH Spann's Quacker Jack "Jack" 500 Pt. Club (New & IMPROVED jacket).

  8. #38
    Senior Member Bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Toti View Post
    Absolutely agree that a filer can blow the wheels off some dogs. But the statement was they need to use birds at the test. Not all tests that use birds use fliers.

    As for the statement about having an unglued dog on a flier is horrible and that's what's wrong with some of the ideals today in the dog world. I run akc and ukc hunt test and am beginning to dabble with qual work. In no way in any scenario do I want a dog that comes unglued or idiotic when a live bird is thrown......ever. (As a coach once told me, "act like youve been there before"). I saw a FC AFC dog that lost her mind when the flier was thrown this weekend and decided to stroll 10 yds away from the handler To get a better view before returning to the handlers side before being sent. I have no want to in my life to have a dog that finds that necessary. FC or not. Plenty of damn good dogs can mark without going full retard on a flier.
    So out of idle curiosity- I axed Entry Express about you. Their query indicates:
    Handler: Nick Toti
    Event Date Event Registered Name Stake
    03/02/2013 Cajun Riviera Field Trial Club AKC Hunting Test HR Toti's Big Brown Sugar Senior
    03/03/2013 Cajun Riviera Field Trial Club AKC Hunting Test HR Toti's Big Brown Sugar Senior
    1


    Given your obviously vast experience on this subject- I will defer further comment.

    Know when to hold em regards

    Bubba
    There are three classes of people: those who see...those who see when shown...and those who do not see. - Leonardo da Vinci

  9. #39
    Senior Member Lonnie Spann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    So out of idle curiosity- I axed Entry Express about you. Their query indicates:
    Handler: Nick Toti
    Event Date Event Registered Name Stake
    03/02/2013 Cajun Riviera Field Trial Club AKC Hunting Test HR Toti's Big Brown Sugar Senior
    03/03/2013 Cajun Riviera Field Trial Club AKC Hunting Test HR Toti's Big Brown Sugar Senior
    1


    Given your obviously vast experience on this subject- I will defer further comment.

    Know when to hold em regards

    Bubba
    Bubba,

    If I'm ever in your neck of the woods lets have a beer, I'm buying!

    Lonnie Spann
    DISCLAIMER: The above post is the opinionated and biased view of your's truly, Lonnie Spann, and is in no way intended to reflect the opinions or views of the unfortunate individuals named below who just happen to be doomed with guilt by association.

    Member of CAHRC and North AL HRC. I train with AND AM FRIENDS WITH: Fishduck, Laidback, Splash_Em, RF2, Drake2014, Claimsadj, Hooked on Quackers, RookieTrainer and Roseberry.

    HRCH Spann's Quacker Jack "Jack" 500 Pt. Club (New & IMPROVED jacket).

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
    So out of idle curiosity- I axed Entry Express about you. Their query indicates:
    Handler: Nick Toti
    Event Date Event Registered Name Stake
    03/02/2013 Cajun Riviera Field Trial Club AKC Hunting Test HR Toti's Big Brown Sugar Senior
    03/03/2013 Cajun Riviera Field Trial Club AKC Hunting Test HR Toti's Big Brown Sugar Senior
    1


    Given your obviously vast experience on this subject- I will defer further comment.

    Know when to hold em regards

    Bubba
    haha impressive bubba. Whoever you are, I am glad you wonder so much to who the Nick Toti is to google me. Glad I'm taking up some time of your day! Absolutely am no expert but spend the majority(probably too much) of my time training dogs, running tests, and watching trials. Nothing I stated takes extensive knowledge on dogs to know.

    Everyone's entitled! Show us your pelts!
    Last edited by Nick Toti; 10-23-2013 at 09:42 AM.

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