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solving issues parading, shaking & not retrieving without FF?

4K views 17 replies 7 participants last post by  HuntinDawg 
#1 ·
I have a 14month golden male who has some serious health issues and isn't gonna be with us for a full lifetime, also just a backyard breed dog, not from high end genes... But with that said he is a great dog who is very eager to please. We have been working with him since he was a pup on simple retrieves, and feel that he could easily suit or needs as a duck retriever. He absolutely loves the water, leaps six+ ft. and crashes into cold water with out hesitation, and loves to chase bumpers. He loves to work, and gets serious when the training tools come out. When retrieving on a pond he does great, I think because there is only one way out of the water so the dummy is always brought back, because he was no other choice. But when out of the water he charges the dummy, finds it, and then goes into parading shaking violently and fails to finish the retrieve? Any advice? I know Force fetch would solve this, but this isn't not the route I want to go with this dog. I don't need him to be a high end dog, just be able to retrieve some birds.

thanks!
 
#4 ·
Get another bumper and tease him with it while calling him to you. When he gets 10 feet away throw the one you have and he'll probably drop the one he has and chase the new one. Keep this up and work him closer and closer to you. You can teach him hold later without a ton of pressure. For now get him coming back to you because he knows you'll give him another chase when he gets there. OBTW short cut grass here, make it fun and fast paced, ho hunting. Use IDENTICAL bumpers or he may decide he likes one better than the other and blow you off.
 
#9 ·
Nah, no reason AT ALL to put that pup under the stress of FF or any other corrective style of training, if you just want to give him a nice life and take him hunting with you.

You're going to have to adjust your thought process and to a degree expectations, especially if you're a guy that thinks a dog should do X by age Y, but no reason you can't have a hunting dog without all the pressure.

That's all provided he wants to do the work, which it sounds like he does. If he doesn't, I wouldn't push a healthy dog along, much less a chronically ill one.

Take a look into positive training, learn as much as you can, and adapt yourself a little program for this special guy.

Discipline? we're not trying to win a national.
 
#12 ·
Finn - I'd guess Robert Milners approach is what you'll 'feel' best about. That said (and not sure why discipline is cast a dirty word) your dog, irregardless of it's unfortunate condition, is still a dog. It will act like a dog and react like a dog. Dogs are generally selfish critters regardless of how much we love them or they 'love' us.

Your dilemma as stated: solving issues parading, shaking & not retrieving without FF? is pretty common for a young dog, ill or not. Particularly if the dog hasn't been taught good mouth habits and you the owner haven't established whose bird it is, and some expectations around the dogs role in retrieving.

Nor can you train 'stress free' if you want the dog to come around to your thinking and not its own. Regardless of how we impart human traits onto a dog - the dog will give you what you train it to give you.

You don't have to FF, but you do have to train the behavior. And it's often training behavior that conflicts with what the dog would rather do.

Good luck.
 
#13 ·
Forced Fetch/CONTROLLED fetch does not have to be a terrible thing you know? Just think, in 2-4 weeks this could all be history and it does NOT have to be a miserable expirence. Neither does obedience...
 
#16 ·
Finn2Winn, there is another forum for positive gun dog trainers at this link: groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/PositiveGunDogs/conversations/topics

It's a nice group of folks like Alice Woodyard and Lindsay Ridgeway who have had success for years using positive techniques. Alice also uses a collar, but she is a great advisor for those who don't. That may be a better forum to get the advice you're looking for.

Good luck!
 
#18 · (Edited)
1) I would echo what someone else said: FF does not have to be a horrible experience and the worst of it is over relatively quickly IMO.
2) Failing that and respecting your judgment not to put your dog through FF due to the expectancy of a short career, I'd have to agree with what others said about really working on the response to HERE and the come in whistle. You've already been given some ideas. I would add putting a long line on the dog and working on the response to HERE both when the dog IS and IS NOT retrieving. I don't want to be insulting, you may already know this, but with the long line you can ensure compliance and guarantee an opportunity to praise for that compliance even though the dog had no choice BUT to come when called. You want to use quick sharp tugs on the check cord, each one with the repeated command HERE and take up the slack as fast as you can to get multiple tugs (essentially collar corrections) as he is in route back to you on each return.

I'm assuming you won't be using an e-collar either, so you've got to just teach in such a way as to guarantee success (rope does this) and then praise like crazy when you (predictably because the dog had no choice) get the desired result.

Good luck and good for you for wanting to make the most of his time here despite his health issues.

EDIT: You state that this dog has a strong desire to please, so I really think you can work this out to your satisfaction (not holding a very high standard, but still getting the dog to return the bird to you) by doing a lot of TEACHING what you want the dog to do as I've described above. Think of it a little like training puppy obedience. Teach the desired response and praise like crazy.
 
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