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Thread: Benghazi

  1. #31
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    A military order can be given written or verbally they hold the same weight.

    Then that would mean that Obama DID give the order ... or did he? The verbatim might have been vague enough to be able to evade whether he did or didn't at a later date, depending on whether whatever action taken succeeded or failed?

    However, someone could have confirmed specifically whether "everything" really meant EVERYthing. There's been no indication that such confirmation was requested.


    I don't believe troops sent in from Italy would have been the answer at all. They needed security forces that were stationed at the consulate. It was woefully undermanned and the battle was lost before it was started.

    I believe they said that the forces from Italy were only an hour away, and that even some air power might have been enough to give some relief to the victims. Also, there was some mention along the way of calling upon allies who might have been able to help as well.

    All the stuff about air space is crap.

    No disagreement from me on that.

    Attacking a consulate is the same as attacking downtown main street. A General who wouldn't commit troops should not be in the position. The head of AFRICOM should have been able to make that decision on his own. I believe he felt that it was better to evacuate than go in with what really amounted to about a squad of operators who were ready to go.
    As to how many "reinforcements" were needed to make a difference, I couldn't say. We do know that just those two former SEALS from the Annex made a large difference in how many were able to survive the attack on the embassy compound. The results would have also depended on what armaments they had available to offset their disadvantage of numbers.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    I disagree with the premise. Fully loaded and on the tarmac I don't believe they could have gotten there in time. A rescue attempt is not feasible in that time period. I will argue though with proper planning they ought not to have needed a rescue. To put a consulate in a war zone in a country that is historically not kind to us, with out a military security force is a poor use of judgment.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henlee View Post
    I disagree with the premise. Fully loaded and on the tarmac I don't believe they could have gotten there in time. A rescue attempt is not feasible in that time period. I will argue though with proper planning they ought not to have needed a rescue. To put a consulate in a war zone in a country that is historically not kind to us, with out a military security force is a poor use of judgment.

    That is what HRT and Delta teams train for, be in the air in moments and plan while enroute, to not even attempt an air strike with all of our military capability is almost criminal..my dad was in logistics in the Army, the last thing a military man wants to hear is a stand down order, its what they are trained for its what they do..When lawmakers start handcuffing the military capabilities, and generals start thinking policy over sound military strategy is when people die
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Sound strategy would have been to staff properly to begin with and to me seems like the only way this tragedy could have been adverted.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
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  5. #35
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Agree with both of you. First, they should have had better security in place at the compound. It had been requested. Second, knowing the danger in the area they should have had their response teams ready to roll for just such an emergency.

    Henlee, you said there weren't such response teams to call upon. Maybe you are correct. If you are, then the question is WHY did they not have that capability to respond. One of the most dangerous areas on the planet, and they were not prepared.

    Like Bon, I would have to believe that the military is capable of having such response ability. In the interest of national security, I can also believe that they should not advertise all of their response capability for the public's common knowledge (and the enemies' !). I don't expect that we should be privy to the details, but such disclosures should be made in classified fashion to a small number of those investigating so that dereliction of duty can be ascertained.

    I think back to the secrecy surrounding the D-Day invasion. The factor of "surprise" was critical to the success of the mission. While weather determined the exact timing, the secrecy surrounding the invasion was merited.

    Following that line of thinking, I could suspect that there was, indeed, the ability to respond, but for some reason it was not used. Another, "WHY" question.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Agree with both of you. First, they should have had better security in place at the compound. It had been requested. Second, knowing the danger in the area they should have had their response teams ready to roll for just such an emergency.

    Henlee, you said there weren't such response teams to call upon. Maybe you are correct. If you are, then the question is WHY did they not have that capability to respond. One of the most dangerous areas on the planet, and they were not prepared.

    Like Bon, I would have to believe that the military is capable of having such response ability. In the interest of national security, I can also believe that they should not advertise all of their response capability for the public's common knowledge (and the enemies' !). I don't expect that we should be privy to the details, but such disclosures should be made in classified fashion to a small number of those investigating so that dereliction of duty can be ascertained.

    I think back to the secrecy surrounding the D-Day invasion. The factor of "surprise" was critical to the success of the mission. While weather determined the exact timing, the secrecy surrounding the invasion was merited.

    Following that line of thinking, I could suspect that there was, indeed, the ability to respond, but for some reason it was not used. Another, "WHY" question.
    You are all three correct. The answer to why this happened is not the circumstances of this case but the fact that this government does not really care about we the common people of this country. No plans were made to take care of them. Like the plans for health care were not really being made to help the real problem ( just window dressing ). Just on my soap box again.
    Last edited by charly_t; 11-16-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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  7. #37
    Senior Member Golddogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    When lawmakers start handcuffing the military capabilities, and generals start thinking policy over sound military strategy is when people die
    Brings me back to those lovely Viet Nam days.

    Face it, since WW II that has been the MOA of all conflicts/wars/or police actions.

    Unless a strike team was in country, I doubt anything could have been done in the first few hours. Probably could have prevented the X Seals death's, but the rest would have happened no matter what................Unless, as Henlee stated, we had a force significant enough to repel or at least delay the initial attack.
    Never trust a dog to watch your food!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Henlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Henlee, you said there weren't such response teams to call upon. Maybe you are correct. If you are, then the question is WHY did they not have that capability to respond. One of the most dangerous areas on the planet, and they were not prepared.
    Oh I believe that thy have response teams that could respond, just not fast enough to prevent deaths. Tripoli to Benghazi is 405 miles. Pick a plane and do the math the earliest they could have been in the same air space was an hour and forty five. Factor in assembling men, arming them and getting intelligence to put together a plan in mid air. Then you got take off, the flight, landing, getting transportation, the drive to the consulate and then entry into battle at minimum. All this in war zone no less.

    The Tripoli plan wasn't realistic. Had we an aircraft carrier of the coast, they could have provided a response in that time, but even then that may not have saved Stevens. The 12 more security men may have been able to buy time, but they would not have been able to hold out overnight. The Libyans that were defending the area, if they had a better plan and communications could have helped. I however would have preferred about 50 Marines on site with prepared positions. It is all easy to think of in hindsight, but I think their security plan sucked.
    During break time at obedience school, two dogs were talking.
    One said to the other..."The thing I hate about obedience school is you learn ALL this stuff you will never use in the real world."

  9. #39
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    I disagree with the premise. Fully loaded and on the tarmac I don't believe they could have gotten there in time. A rescue attempt is not feasible in that time period. I will argue though with proper planning they ought not to have needed a rescue. To put a consulate in a war zone in a country that is historically not kind to us, with out a military security force is a poor use of judgment.
    3 generals disagree wit you. And they were all let go because of that
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    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
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  10. #40
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Henlee, I can still ask the question about why the military didn't have this stuff worked out for such a dangerous outpost.

    I also remember that there are those who believe that the SEAL was laser-"painting" a target for what he believed was an armed drone. The premise being that he wouldn't have made himself a sitting duck if he didn't believe that. We are told that we are not allowed to have armed drones in Libya. But suppose we do anyhow? That is one of the things that the military could not make public, but that former SEAL believed that possibility existed? They have not interviewed the fellows who manned the drones that night.

    They might not have been in time to save Stevens, but might have saved the two former SEALS ... and also prevented the serious injuries that have kept two more at Walter Reed for over a year now.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
    "Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

    ​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

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