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Thread: Prey drive or courage,,?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrinGreene View Post
    I respectfully submit that these are one in the same. It's the dog's ancient instinct to EAT that's at play here. Prey and hunt are exactly the same thing. They are looking for a bird to EAT it. The only reason they don't is because we've trained a different behavior into them when they find it.

    Remember that in the natural world prey tends to hide from predators so.. a dog would have to use it's nose to find and flush the prey and then chase it down to kill/eat it.

    We reverse that with the tasks we ask the dog to perform but naturally, what we're calling "hunt" drive would actually precede "prey" drive in the natural order of things. Thus, to me anyhow, they are one in the same.

    Darrin, What were ( are ) the traits looked for in the bomb dogs or any other sniffer dogs ....? Steve S
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  2. #22
    Senior Member Kevin Eskam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    Steve
    I really think that drive can not be trained in ( It is there or it isn't ) , but like I said in my first post, how bold the dog is can change as they mature ( Knowing what is expected of them) depending on how much drive they have. By using the term compulsion give the impression that the response has been burned in and that's not what I was trying to say.
    Example:
    I had one dog that it's water entry was slow and unsure. Knowing that he had good drive, I just gave him some time. Now he goes in with confidence.




    Keith
    I believe it is brought out in the dog, just like a lion bringing a wounded kill back to her cubs, She shows them that it cant hurt them and let them kill it.

    So it is the same with dogs, you take a live bird at 7 weeks old and the pup is alittle hesitant. but after he is allowed to bite it and taste it, he realizes it cant hurt him (courage). His courage grows, he becomes "Bold on Birds" he then develops a passion for these birds, now you put a bird down and he has no fear and the prey drive is developed.
    If they were wild, the ones who would not actively pursue wild game would die. IMO it is in them, You have to make the light bulb turn on.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    As a trainer, I feel that I am not putting thing in that are not already there. You can think of it as a big ball of clay. It will always be clay, but put a good pair of hands on it and it is a work of art. Same goes with dogs, I can't put anything in them, ( trainers can take it out ) but what I can do is focus and shape whats already there.

    I can tell you how I look at it. The more driven the dogs are the less train-ability they have. I call them high maintenance. These types have to have continual
    reinforcement and training.

    The ones I like the most are the dogs that are not as driven, but have good drive. I call them honest dogs. They have high train-ability and a memory like a elephant. With these dog I have to be aware that it's all in the bonding if you cross them, or over train them, they will give you the middle finger.

    Keith.
    I don't consider it putting something into the dog,I consider it enhancing what is there ...Some times I have seen great improvements in a dogs performance...I think we have all seen that wild eyed dog that is running wide open all the time but there is very little control of the dog...Some are brought under control with sever training practices..Breaking is in my mind...Would you consider this taking it out of the dog or shaping what is already there...? Trainability is one trait highly desirable to have in any animal or person...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Eskam View Post
    I believe it is brought out in the dog, just like a lion bringing a wounded kill back to her cubs, She shows them that it cant hurt them and let them kill it.

    So it is the same with dogs, you take a live bird at 7 weeks old and the pup is alittle hesitant. but after he is allowed to bite it and taste it, he realizes it cant hurt him (courage). His courage grows, he becomes "Bold on Birds" he then develops a passion for these birds, now you put a bird down and he has no fear and the prey drive is developed.
    If they were wild, the ones who would not actively pursue wild game would die. IMO it is in them, You have to make the light bulb turn on.
    What if the dog was shown a ball or a frizzbie, the same thing would happen if the dog is driven to what it wants.

    Keith

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Eskam View Post
    I believe it is brought out in the dog, just like a lion bringing a wounded kill back to her cubs, She shows them that it cant hurt them and let them kill it.

    So it is the same with dogs, you take a live bird at 7 weeks old and the pup is alittle hesitant. but after he is allowed to bite it and taste it, he realizes it cant hurt him (courage). His courage grows, he becomes "Bold on Birds" he then develops a passion for these birds, now you put a bird down and he has no fear and the prey drive is developed.
    If they were wild, the ones who would not actively pursue wild game would die. IMO it is in them, You have to make the light bulb turn on.

    At this age we see what has been put into the dog and the degree it is present at that time...Some are bold at the first introduction and others are lacking at that moment in time...Turning on the light bulb is our job...and some will die...Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 10-28-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    What if the dog was shown a ball or a frizzbie, the same thing would happen if the dog is driven to what it wants.

    Keith
    I believe there is another trait involved if the dog will chase a ball and not a bird ,live or dead...small one not a goose...Sometimes this will be a stepping stone to getting that light bulb turned on though...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  7. #27
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve schreiner View Post
    I don't consider it putting something into the dog,I consider it enhancing what is there ...Some times I have seen great improvements in a dogs performance...I think we have all seen that wild eyed dog that is running wide open all the time but there is very little control of the dog...Some are brought under control with sever training practices..Breaking is in my mind...Would you consider this taking it out of the dog or shaping what is already there...? Trainability is one trait highly desirable to have in any animal or person...Steve S
    I don't know about sever training, I think that's a little harsh. These types of dog, live in the moment and have to be focused on the task at hand.
    Keith

  8. #28
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Hmmm a very Heady thread; y'all are taxing my brain with deep philosophy; that I'm trying to convert it into English. (I might need a drink)
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 10-28-2013 at 06:00 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Breaking is in my mind...Would you consider this taking it out of the dog or shaping what is already there...? Trainability is one trait highly desirable to have in any animal or person...Steve S

    Kieth, what is your take on my comment above....? As for sever training I come from the 60 and 70's era of time and things were a lot different training wise back then...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Hmmm a very Heady thread; y'all are taxing my brain with deep philosophy; that I'm trying to convert it into English. (I might need a drink)
    Get two and give us your take on the subject...Steve S


    PS:I'm starting two dogs on the FF program today ...One shows a high resistance to pressure , the other one not so resistive...What can I expect to encounter with the dogs...? What trait is being displayed by this behavior..? Both love to retrieve birds at this time...Steve S
    Last edited by steve schreiner; 10-28-2013 at 07:00 PM. Reason: added PS..
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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