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Thread: Re-run in a field trial

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    Senior Member HiRollerlabs's Avatar
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    Default Re-run in a field trial

    Scenario: Dog picks up the go-bird of a triple and is sent for the second retrieve. Dog pops on the way to the second retrieve and is handled to that bird. The judges determine there is an unfairness, ask the handler to pick up the dog (before the dog retrieves the 3rd bird) and give this dog a rerun. Can the judges disregard the retrieve of the second bird (pop and handle), and rescore the second bird on the re-run? Here is what the AKC Rules say about re-runs. If there is an occurrence which makes for a relatively unfair test for a dog, the Judges shall exercise their discretion in determining how to form a judgment of the quality of the work of the dog in the series notwithstanding the unfairness. In forming such judgment the Judges may decide that it is necessary or unnecessary to re-run the dog. If they decide the latter, they may waive delivery to hand of the mark or blind in which the unfairness occurred; if they decide the former, the dog shall be picked up immediately and tested on a new set of birds, if practicable, after waiting behind the line until several other dogs have been tested. The re-run of a mark or blind which was not previously completed shall be scored by taking into consideration the combined performances of the dog prior to the point of unfairness in the initial run and after the point of unfairness in the re-run. If there shall be more than one re-run of that mark or blind, the Judges shall exercise their discretion in determining how to score it fairly. The re-run of a mark or blind which was previously completed shall be scored on the first completion and faults committed on such re-run shall be ignored except that if the dog (1) does not complete that portion in accordance with the Judges’ instructions for the test or (2) commits any of the faults set forth herein as usually justifying elimination from a stake, he shall be penalized in the same manner as the Judges would penalize him regardless of the re-run. Notwithstanding the last sentence of Standard Procedure 8, a handler is not free to select marked falls in a re-run in an order different from the order in which they were selected in the initial run, and if the handler deliberately attempts to do so the dog shall be eliminated from the stake.
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    Senior Member labsforme's Avatar
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    From the point of unfairness "The re-run of a mark or blind which was not previously completed shall be scored by taking into consideration the combined performances of the dog prior to the point of unfairness in the initial run and after the point of unfairness in the re-run. " If the unfairness was on mark 2 then it shouldn't come into play. If mark 3 then I would say yes the previous work is taken into consideration.
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    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    A mark that has been retrieved cannot be rescored on a rerun

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    Senior Member HiRollerlabs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    A mark that has been retrieved cannot be rescored on a rerun
    That is what I would say based on the rules. The go-bird was retrieved--and scored. The dog was sent for the second bird, popped and handled--and that retrieve is scored under the rules. The rerun would only be for the third bird, which was not retrieved on the first run. I don't have any more details on this. I am just trying to walk through it for my own education on what can be "scored" in a rerun situation.
    Bob/Ann Heise
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiRollerlabs View Post
    That is what I would say based on the rules. The go-bird was retrieved--and scored. The dog was sent for the second bird, popped and handled--and that retrieve is scored under the rules. The rerun would only be for the third bird, which was not retrieved on the first run. I don't have any more details on this. I am just trying to walk through it for my own education on what can be "scored" in a rerun situation.
    I would like to know if the judges declared the unfairness at the time of the pop and handle or after the dog had made the retrieve ...If after the pop and handle and a pick up I would be very interested to know if they judged the handle or let the dog have another shot at a clean run...I believe the judges should have stopped the dog from making the retrieve if they are going to give it a rerun...and then judge the 2nd mark...Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    My understanding is its rescored from the point of interference or unfairness,and not necessarily the whole mark is rescored. If they popped before the unfairness occurred then the pop still stands? But the mark after that point is rescored and the next mark is then judged ?
    Last edited by Bill Billups; 10-28-2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Grammar

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    A mark that has been retrieved cannot be rescored on a rerun
    Say a bird boy has a brain fart and mistakenly "hey heys" a dog that's leaving the area and dog that was going to have a gorilla hunt is helped to the bird without being instructed to. Do they get a rerun?

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    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    A mark that has been retrieved cannot be rescored on a rerun
    I disagree.

    I think the Rulebook reference to not scoring a previously completed mark is referring to a mark completed before the point of unfairness.

    Consider a dog enroute to a mark and an unfairness occurs such as some interference in the field. However, the dog does get the bird albeit poorly while the judges are observing and deciding what to do. Not only do they then decide an unfairness occurred but that it affected the dogs performance and to the extent it would affect another 3rd bird perhaps.

    They declare a rerun and the dog gets scored from the point of the unfairness. In other words they score the mark again. If you think an unfairness occurred and caused a faulty performance you can't just pretend the dog did OK. And, you can't always get the dog picked up before the fetch!

    Perhaps above not a common scenario but do not think the Rulebook disallows re-scoring a mark unless it has been completed before the unfairness.

    Cheers
    Dennis

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    If it is assumed (insufficient information at this point) the interference caused the pop, are you going to penalize the handler & dog because the judge couldn't think on his/her feet quick enough to stop the retrieve at the point of interference and require the dog to be judged beyond the point of interference (in my hypothetical since we don't have enough info about the interference)?
    David Didier, GA

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