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Thread: Re-run in a field trial

  1. #11
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Billups View Post
    Say a bird boy has a brain fart and mistakenly "hey heys" a dog that's leaving the area and dog that was going to have a gorilla hunt is helped to the bird without being instructed to. Do they get a rerun?
    How can you score a rerun on a mark the dog has already retrieved? The standard for fairness also includes the other dogs, there is no way to rectify the issue without scrapping the test and starting over. When a judge recognizes an unfair situation the dog must immediately picked up before retrieving the bird and then given a rerun. After the bird has been retrieved there is no remedy other than a new test.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Huff's Avatar
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    If the point of unfairness was what caused the dog to pop, then the judges should have told the handler to not complete the mark but pick up the dog and come back for a re run. The fact that they let the dog complete the mark means that mark should be scored but the third uncompleted mark would be the only one left to score on the re run. Just my thoughts anyway.

    Russell
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  3. #13
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RetrieversONLINE View Post
    I disagree.

    I think the Rulebook reference to not scoring a previously completed mark is referring to a mark completed before the point of unfairness.

    Consider a dog enroute to a mark and an unfairness occurs such as some interference in the field. However, the dog does get the bird albeit poorly while the judges are observing and deciding what to do. Not only do they then decide an unfairness occurred but that it affected the dogs performance and to the extent it would affect another 3rd bird perhaps.

    They declare a rerun and the dog gets scored from the point of the unfairness. In other words they score the mark again. If you think an unfairness occurred and caused a faulty performance you can't just pretend the dog did OK. And, you can't always get the dog picked up before the fetch!

    Perhaps above not a common scenario but do not think the Rulebook disallows re-scoring a mark unless it has been completed before the unfairness.

    Cheers
    When the bird has been retrieved there is no remedy that is fair to the running dog and not unfair to the other competitors other than scrapping the test and starting over.

  4. #14
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huff View Post
    If the point of unfairness was what caused the dog to pop, then the judges should have told the handler to not complete the mark but pick up the dog and come back for a re run. The fact that they let the dog complete the mark means that mark should be scored but the third uncompleted mark would be the only one left to score on the re run. Just my thoughts anyway.

    Russell
    Your thoughts are absolutely correct!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    When the bird has been retrieved there is no remedy that is fair to the running dog and not unfair to the other competitors other than scrapping the test and starting over.
    Possibly, but there are still birds to retrieve & at least an additional series. If a placement came down to that one mark maybe its unfair to some of the other dogs (no more than 4), not otherwise - but we know it's unfair to the dog interfered with.
    David Didier, GA

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Your thoughts are absolutely correct!
    We all know what should have happened but apparently it didn't so you have to deal with the situation you have, not the hypothetical, with fairness under the rules (referring to Huff's post).
    David Didier, GA

  7. #17
    Senior Member RetrieversONLINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    When the bird has been retrieved there is no remedy that is fair to the running dog and not unfair to the other competitors other than scrapping the test and starting over.
    I understand that may often be the best, most fair, course of action but my point was the Rule Book does not say you can't re-score that mark on a rerun (unless the unfairness occurred afterwards). If this was the 70th dog in an 80 dog Open would you scrap the test or would you try to be as fair as you could to the dog? As a competitor I would not feel hard done by because you gave another dog a best chance after an interfering unfairness as I described. As you know it is often tough for the dog to do a re-run well so it's not like you are giving him a cake walk!
    Dennis

  8. #18
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    Possibly, but there are still birds to retrieve & at least an additional series. If a placement came down to that one mark maybe its unfair to some of the other dogs (no more than 4), not otherwise - but we know it's unfair to the dog interfered with.
    The point that seems to be missed is that once the dog has retrieved a bird from that spot there is no way to evaluate it's marking on that bird on a rerun the unfairness notwithstanding.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    The point that seems to be missed is that once the dog has retrieved a bird from that spot there is no way to evaluate it's marking on that bird on a rerun the unfairness notwithstanding.
    That too is obvious but you don't ignore the unfairness to the handler & dog interfered with because of some hypothetical unfairness to 4 other dogs. You just keep that in mind & if it becomes a factor in placements you deal with it as fairly as you can then.
    David Didier, GA

  10. #20
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granddaddy View Post
    That too is obvious but you don't ignore the unfairness to the handler & dog interfered with because of some hypothetical unfairness to 4 other dogs. You just keep that in mind & if it becomes a factor in placements you deal with it as fairly as you can then.
    There is nothing hypothetical about the unfairness of giving one dog a bye on a mark. If the unfairness occurred before the dog popped why was it allowed to be handled to the bird. The lesson to judges should be that if you think an unfair situation has occurred you are obligated to pick up the dog immediately before it has retrieved the bird and bring it back later to be retested. To do otherwise reduces judging to speculation.

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