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Thread: Re-run in a field trial

  1. #31
    Senior Member Breck's Avatar
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    Picking a dog up in the midst of retrieving a set of marks can be far more of an unfairness to a dog than the original unfairness.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Doug, you continue to attempt to cloud the initial issue with alternative issues which are not relevant to the question.

    How can you evaluate a mark that the dog has previously retrieved?

    Please correct me if I am wrong but you seem to imply that the dog would have completed the mark successfully except for the unfairness. To complicate that you introduced 70 dogs having run which was not presented in the initial scenario. It is much more likely for the event to have occurred after the 7th dog than the 70th dog but even given that scenario can we wildly speculate that the mark was a very well placed middle distance retired gun that only that only 1 in 5 dogs found without handling and only 1 in 10 dogs did it well. Are we to reward a dog who admittedly had bad luck by judging him on a rerun on that bird that he has already retrieved?
    Depends on when the unfairness happened. If it happened before the dog retrieved the bird and the judges determined the dog gets a a rerun, that retrieve never happened beyond the point of the unfairness.
    Bill Davis

  3. #33
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    Yes, of course.

    Bill Connor

  4. #34
    Senior Member Doug Main's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Please correct me if I am wrong but you seem to imply that the dog would have completed the mark successfully except for the unfairness.
    No, if that were the case there would be no reason to re-run/re-score it.

    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    It is much more likely for the event to have occurred after the 7th dog than the 70th dog but even given that scenario can we wildly speculate that the mark was a very well placed middle distance retired gun that only that only 1 in 5 dogs found without handling and only 1 in 10 dogs did it well. Are we to reward a dog who admittedly had bad luck by judging him on a rerun on that bird that he has already retrieved?
    I said it depends on a lot of factors, including what the test was and what the unfairness was. Obviously, if it is THE key bird in a "1 bird" test. it would certainly weigh heavily in favor of scrapping the test especially if it happened on the 7th dog as opposed to the 70th dog.

    You are making a lot of assumptions/speculations implying that the dog is being rewarded by granting a re-run. For one, assuming that the dog will do it well on the rerun. For another, that the dog wouldn't have done it well without the unfairness.

    My only point was that "I don't think the rule book mandates scrapping the test as the only alternative" after a dog picks up a mark that the judges determine that there has been something unfair. IMHO It gives the judges a lot more discretion than that.

    I was just agreeing with Dennis:
    They declare a rerun and the dog gets scored from the point of the unfairness. In other words they score the mark again. If you think an unfairness occurred and caused a faulty performance you can't just pretend the dog did OK. And, you can't always get the dog picked up before the fetch!

    Perhaps above not a common scenario but do not think the Rulebook disallows re-scoring a mark unless it has been completed before the unfairness

    I don't think it is common. Although the running flier situation is one example.




  5. #35
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Main View Post
    No, if that were the case there would be no reason to re-run/re-score it.



    I said it depends on a lot of factors, including what the test was and what the unfairness was. Obviously, if it is THE key bird in a "1 bird" test. it would certainly weigh heavily in favor of scrapping the test especially if it happened on the 7th dog as opposed to the 70th dog.

    You are making a lot of assumptions/speculations implying that the dog is being rewarded by granting a re-run. For one, assuming that the dog will do it well on the rerun. For another, that the dog wouldn't have done it well without the unfairness.

    My only point was that "I don't think the rule book mandates scrapping the test as the only alternative" after a dog picks up a mark that the judges determine that there has been something unfair. IMHO It gives the judges a lot more discretion than that.

    I was just agreeing with Dennis:


    I don't think it is common. Although the running flier situation is one example.



    Doug, I was once given a re-run in a similar scenario. Long, out of order flier with short retired. I picked up the short retired first. When I sent the dog for the long flier it started running as she was hunting the area. The judges asked me to pick up my dog... As I was blowing the whistle, trying to get her stopped... The duck flew away... I got the dog back. Was given a re-run... Where she subsequently hunted the wrong side of the short retired for a while... I handled her to it. And picked up the long flier clean. She then picked up the third bird clean. I had my rule book in my pocket because I had anticipated what was going to happen on the short retired that she had already retrieved.

    Both judges were shaking their heads and saying "that's too bad". I started laughing... And asked them if we could talk during the next break. I had to show them the hilighted portion in my rule book stating that the rerun is only scored from the point of unfairness in the first attempt at the test. Neither of these judges knew it and they were both 8 pt judges.

    I won that trial. (But I wouldn't have if I had been a rookie or if I had not had my rule book handy).
    Bill Davis

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