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Thread: Correcting pulling between holding blinds

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    Default Correcting pulling between holding blinds

    I train in the yard with holding blinds. My dog goes very calm from one to another in the yard. Not so at a Hunt Test. Yesterday I heard of a suggestion to put a rope choke lead around the dogs waiste or mid section so to speak. I was told by this person it is very effective in stopping a dog from pulling between holding blinds on the way to the line. I didn't try it, and dont know that I would try that out of fear of hurting the dog seriously like squeezing the stomach or spleen. Does anyone know if this method of correction is safe for the dog and is effective. Obviously one cannot take the dog all the way to the line in this manner.

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    Senior Member hotel4dogs's Avatar
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    commonly used in agility, never heard of it hurting a dog. But it's not considered a "correction", more of an on-the-spot harness.

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    Senior Member Wayne Nutt's Avatar
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    A strong ob program is a necessity.
    The backyard won't get it. It is probably step one but you have to have some distractions to get corrections. Do you use an ecollar? See my video below:

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...highlight=Line

    After this you need to get with a large group like on a training day.
    Last edited by Wayne Nutt; 10-28-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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    Wayne,

    Yes I have an ecollar. I do belong to a club and we have monthly training days that are pretty structured to simulate a test. They are just that though, once a month which isn't enough. I should probably try to find a smaller group where I can pratice this much more frequent if I want to take this dog beyond a JH. Was just curious if anyone had tried the rope around the mid section and its saftey and effectiveness. Thanks for the good feedback and video though. You always give folks good advice on this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freezeland View Post
    Wayne,

    Yes I have an ecollar. I do belong to a club and we have monthly training days that are pretty structured to simulate a test. They are just that though, once a month which isn't enough. I should probably try to find a smaller group where I can pratice this much more frequent if I want to take this dog beyond a JH. Was just curious if anyone had tried the rope around the mid section and its saftey and effectiveness. Thanks for the good feedback and video though. You always give folks good advice on this site.
    It's best if you use a thick rope like a rodeo rope. Pointer folks use it to whoa their pups. Pressure on abdomen causes them to stop.

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    Senior Member MooseGooser's Avatar
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    Here is an article about the use of the :wonder lead. It was written by RTF's own Sharon Potter.

    I have seen it used around the dogs waist also..

    http://huntsmith.com/article.php?id=5

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    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    The lead works well, and on the neck is more than enough. The trick is to never let the dog take up the slack. The dog needs to make the mistake, and then you go the opposite direction just before the dog reaches the end of the slack....give a sharp tug at the same time the slack runs out so the dog learns it has to stay with you. A dog can't pull you from holding blind to holding blind unless you're pulling too. Don't give the dog a steady hold to pull against.
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    You won't injure the dog using the half hitch around the waist. That's how most all the pointers are started on whoa in the world. It's not a bad way to gain control of a dog who's turned into a mess or hasn't had leash training early enough

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    Senior Member Mary Lynn Metras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by freezeland View Post
    I train in the yard with holding blinds. My dog goes very calm from one to another in the yard. Not so at a Hunt Test. Yesterday I heard of a suggestion to put a rope choke lead around the dogs waiste or mid section so to speak. I was told by this person it is very effective in stopping a dog from pulling between holding blinds on the way to the line. I didn't try it, and dont know that I would try that out of fear of hurting the dog seriously like squeezing the stomach or spleen. Does anyone know if this method of correction is safe for the dog and is effective. Obviously one cannot take the dog all the way to the line in this manner.
    Why when it is only at tests he does the pulling? You stated he was good at home. I would try to do more group training if possible, where you can hopefully recreate the scenario and then you correct him.
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    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I use the half hitch trick with all types and sizes of dog, never been a problem with injury.

    As for the heeling discussion I will present a slightly different perspective.

    Your problem goes all the way back to the very foundation of obedience, which is having the dog engaged with you, rather than his environment/wants/desires. With a retriever this can be a careful balancing act between the dog's mindset before he leaves the running line and after. That balance also applies between marks and blinds. We obviously want our dogs to be independent and courageous at certain times, and extremely obedient at others. This is one of the many challenges that make retriever games so difficult relative to some others.

    There are a number of ways to promote engagement using both reward and punishment, but in the end it's all about the dog's expectation of what's going to happen next in a given situation.

    I didn't read Sharon's article (yet) about the wonder lead but based on what she wrote above I can quickly figure out that we're making a change in direction when the dog starts getting out of position, which creates a consequence for not paying attention to where he belongs. We're not giving any warnings or saying anything, just changing directions. The smart dog will learn pretty quickly to pay attention to the whereabouts of his handler if every time his mind wanders the handler moves and a correction happens. The tool used to make the correction is irrelevant really. It could be the wonder lead, a pinch collar, choke chain, piece of rope or the e-collar. It doesn't really matter. What seems to matter is being unpredictable to the dog so that that have to pay attention in order to avoid the correction. That means turning frequently and sharply, with no cues or warnings. I say heel to bring the dog into position and here or sit when I step off so that they know what I expect, otherwise, there is no talking. That includes teaching auto sit when we stop (which plays into 100 other things).

    The positive method is pretty simple. Just look around youtube and there are 100 videos on how to teach a dog to heel with treats.

    As with everything, this training follows the usual premise of increasing distraction. Start with 1:1 and little to no distractions and gradually build them up until you have the ultimate distraction (BIRDS!). It takes planning. time and careful execution to build it into a mindless habit that works in all situations.

    You might want to think about getting away from testing for a while until you get this under control. If you can't heel from blind to blind without a ton of corrections, whatever's happening on line and in the field can't be helping support your long term objectives.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 10-29-2013 at 07:07 AM.
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