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Thread: Titled dogs from untitled parents

  1. #41
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RookieTrainer View Post
    I agree Sharon. It's true that we know a pup from an FC-FC breeding has Rhodes Scholar parents, but it does not follow that all pups not from an FC-FC breeding are out of village idiots. The simple fact is that we have no idea about the capabilities of untrained dogs. My dog has 10 remaining siblings, and I am not aware that any of the rest of them even hunt, much less play any of the dog games. You can't convince me that at least one of them could have done fairly well (or possibly better) had they been asked to do so.

    And we all know that getting a pup from the FC- FC breeding does not guarantee that the pup will be an FC either. You may have stacked the odds as much in your favor as you could, but there are still no guarantees. I don't see Michael Jordan's kids playing in the NBA.
    To add to that, we also don't know that the FC x FC came from titled parents either. The one thing that is likely from an FC x FC litter is that the pups will all start out in competition homes, so they've already got a better chance than a pup from untitled parents.
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  2. #42
    Senior Member Rnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    To play devil's advocate to this....there is a lot of ground between the village idiot and a Rhodes scholar. Those winners from untitled dogs didn't come from the village idiot. More than likely, they came from a hard working set of parents with a ton of common sense, an above average intelligence, and work ethic....not exclusive to Rhodes scholars by any means, but necessary to get the job done.

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    when that question was posed to me Microsoft had just went public with it's IPO.

    Bill Gates was no idiot...and anybody that knew Bill Clinton.... Would NOT adopt any offspring of his

    point taken-- just trying to add to the thread. ...

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  3. #43
    Senior Member Rick_C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shawninthesticks View Post
    Exactly, me to and most others that understand what titles represent, but lets make sure that we all know that Mr. Shih would not even consider such a thing.
    If you started a poll and asked whether FT competitors would consider a puppy from untitled parents vs. a litter from titled parents I'm pretty certain you'd find Mr. Shih is not in the minority. Heck, you would probably find the same thing from serious hunt testers too.

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  4. #44
    Member Gary M's Avatar
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    Is it just me or does this discussion remind anyone of the comedy Trading Places? .... "Given the right surroundings and encouragement, I'll bet that that man could run our company as well as Winthorpe." Great movie wrt to the discussion of breeding or environment having the larger role in failure or success. My guess would be that FT/HT success comes to those pups raised in the correct environments, regardless of the titles, or lack thereof on the parents. That said, when I'm shopping for a new pup, I'll lean towards the pup with a titled parent or two, just to put the odds in my favor.

  5. #45
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
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    I also wonder if there is any trainer prejudice based on pedigree/titles? (again, playing devil's advocate)

    I am vaguely recalling a situation several years ago where two pups from the same owner were sent to the trainer. One was from am impressive, heavily titled breeding, the other from a fairly nondescript breeding. The trainer got them mixed up. As time went by, the trainer wanted to wash out the pup he thought was from nondescript breeding and raved about the talent of the other pup that he thought was from the heavily titled parents.
    Last edited by Sharon Potter; 11-01-2013 at 02:01 PM. Reason: butterfingers on keyboard
    Sharon Potter

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  6. #46
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_C View Post
    If you started a poll and asked whether FT competitors would consider a puppy from untitled parents vs. a litter from titled parents I'm pretty certain you'd find Mr. Shih is not in the minority. Heck, you would probably find the same thing from serious hunt testers too.
    This is true; when you've played the game and your starting with your second dog; you have a better idea what you want; and you have a better idea where to get it. Most people would not go back to an untitled breeding, especially if they were already committed to the sport and had earned titles themselves. Unless of course they were looking for something (ex; particular lines of dog that you couldn't find anywhere else; cuz you were an idiot that fixed your dog, before test addiction set in). After the first dog; I think most of us know what goes into getting those titles; and once in the sport we respect a dogs (skill level) and a handlers (commitment-effort) that has been put forth to obtain qualifications. We respect those owners and their dogs way more than those who own & breed dogs, yet don't participate in our sport, and for which we have no gauge of what skill-set the parents actually have. So for most us it would be ludicrous to go back to untried parents. This doesn't mean that there's anything inferior about untitled parents, or even generations of untitled parents; I hazard to say most people started with that type of dog; and wouldn't have traded those very unique starter dogs for anything in the world.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    I also wonder if there is any trainer prejudice based on pedigree/titles? (again, playing devil's advocate)
    .
    What about various Judges? (if your going to burn, you should sizzle)
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-01-2013 at 02:25 PM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH-I HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast) Rip. July-2014
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    HR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  8. #48
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharon Potter View Post
    To add to that, we also don't know that the FC x FC came from titled parents either. The one thing that is likely from an FC x FC litter is that the pups will all start out in competition homes, so they've already got a better chance than a pup from untitled parents.
    Another good point. To continue with my analogy, had Michael Jordan grown up in Alabama, he may have played tight end.
    Steve Wyatt

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  9. #49
    Senior Member EdA's Avatar
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    FC-AFC Circuit Madam and FC-AFC Circuit Preacher
    McGuffy's Speed Racer X Hiwood Rock's Sassy Polly
    Both sire and dam were unsuccessfully campaigned. There may have been at least one other titled offspring. Circuit Madam was a multiple time National Finalist if my memory is accurate. Had you watched either parent you would not have wanted a dog from either much less together.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdA View Post
    Had you watched either parent you would not have wanted a dog from either much less together.
    Priceless .
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