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Thread: Chesapeak Bay Retriever--the real deal

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    +1 on Linda Harger!!
    You checked on that waiting list lately John? lol..

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdahl View Post
    Actually the genetics experts consulted by the American Chesapeake Club advised that we DO breed these dogs, precisely because of the devastating effect to the gene pool if we don't. The stud book is closed, and we can never expand the gene pool; we can only try to slow its shrinkage. Dr. Long and Dr. Bell specifically state that including a "clear" parent in every breeding, a strategy that would lower the incidence of the disease to nearly zero, would damage the population. Many of us who breed, however, do not want to knowingly produce "at risk" dogs, so we seek one clear parent contrary to the expert advice.

    Anyone interested can read about the ACC DM project on the Club "health" page here: http://amchessieclub.org/health/health.html

    Amy Dahl
    That is a bit of a stretch on words that he said, "WE DO Breed affected dogs". The article says not to exclude them completely and recommended if you did breed an affected dog you chose a clear dog as it's mate.

    Page 3 top left first paragraph
    http://amchessieclub.org/PDFs/Degen_Myelo_article.pdf

    This is a must read for all who have any interest. It's not the holy grail but, about all we have at this time. Lots of questions yet to be answered which makes it even more important for breeders to be responsible about producing affected dogs. As also stated, it is equally important we test all our dogs at a young age and report the tests so they can be used for research. Those who omit reporting testing basically are the same as those who omit to share results of hips and elbows. Usually because they don't want folks to know the answer and it's easier to have a conversation and glass over those issues to people who don't know or understand. We've all seen it happen.
    Last edited by Paul "Happy" Gilmore; 11-01-2013 at 02:27 PM.

  3. #33
    Senior Member duk4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T. Mac View Post
    DM is short for degenerative myelopathy, a disease similar to ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease in humans.

    Good place to start your research is http://www.chesapeakebayretriever.info/dm.htm

    T. Mac
    Thanks T. Mac I will read your link.
    I have learned I need these dogs much more than they need me. Tim Bockmon

  4. #34
    Senior Member j towne's Avatar
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    Look at the litters posted. Call the breeders and talk to them and educate yourself. Some breeder will leave stuff out of adds so you will call and are open with the information. I personally leave the price and dm results out if my adds. Not because I'm hiding anything I am very open about it but you have to call me and personally talk to me about my dogs not listen to someone from god knows where repeat rumors about them.

  5. #35
    Senior Member afdahl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    That is a bit of a stretch on words that he said, "WE DO Breed affected dogs". The article says not to exclude them completely and recommended if you did breed an affected dog you chose a clear dog as it's mate.
    I stand corrected; that is what Dr. Long said. It was Dr. Bell who advised that we not restrict ourselves to only breedings that include one "clear" parent:

    *Is the result of this test for one gene for DM enough to advise breeders to only breed only Carrier and At-Risk dogs to only normals?*
    No. While this recommendation guarantees that no DM affected dogs will be produced, it also requires that all matings be conducted with at least one member of a class of 42% of your gene pool. This significantly skews the gene pool in their direction, and reduces the influence of almost 60% of the breedís gene pool. For a disease that affects less than one in one-hundred Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, this severe a restriction on breeding will significantly limit the breedís genetic diversity.

    /Dr. Bell

    Of course, everything in perspective. We may be doing more damage (to diversity) with OFA and overuse of popular sires than we would by striving not to produce "at risk" puppies.

    Amy Dahl

  6. #36
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    For those whom keep saying an affected developed from a clear / That was not in a CBR.

    Tim Lockards case is the only documented CBR (post mortem) which was tested as carrier and developed DM.(affected)

    A note from Team Chesapeake Discussion-
    Mike, I owned the Chesapeake bitch that was first "DM Carrier" of ANY breed to be "Affected" with the Disease.
    The only way to confirm a diagosis of DM is the examination of the spinal tissues.
    It would be very helpful in the advance of the research studies to be able to study older dogs that tested Carrier or Affected regardless of whether the dogs show signs of the disease.
    I recommend contacting the researchers at U.of Missouri if a dog
    may possibly meet their needs.
    Progress in research is not going to progress without tissue samples!
    Donate to Health/Research when renewing ACC dues in the memory of "Tiger".


    With some of the attitudes towards DM I've seen, there should be plenty of affected tissue samples becoming available for researches in the next 5-10 years. Pretty sad deal. This is a lot like the people who were early to scoff at PRA testing and/or those who said it was, "a show dog disease". Well, it's coming up in both now because of the oversight on testing or, lack of care to have the knowledge of the dog status prior to breeding.

    This is a great discussion which was held on the Team Chesapeake board regarding DM. If you note, many of the contributors have 20+ years experience breeding and competing.

    http://teamchesapeake.infopop.cc/eve...4980067666/p/1

    Lastly, the researchers have a particular opinion about animal husbandry. They represent their findings as if there are "Chesapeake Kennels" breeding a constant flow of animals. I find this to be true of many lab situations and possibly other breeds although, it is rare in Chesapeake circles. (of active performance dogs) The trend I've seen the most is one stud may become popular but, he's being bred to such a variety of bitches from different lines the bottle necking effect would be limited. The researchers conclusions base their comments upon their pre-conceived notions that we all have the same bitch lines and are breeding to the same popular stud. In the lab world, that's probably fairly valid for top level performance dogs. We all know the names and they often are posted in re-occurring title themes here on RTF. That just isn't the case with CBR's.

    Those relatively few performance bitches have owners who must put mind numbing amounts of thought into whom they'll select for their sire. I certainly don't fall into that category and neither do 95% of bitch owners. (maybe higher?)
    Last edited by Paul "Happy" Gilmore; 11-01-2013 at 03:20 PM.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Beamer81's Avatar
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    Alan Sandifer is going to do a repeat breeding of Rudy and Fatty early 14......I have a pup from the first litter and I'm very pleased.........

    He he jammed the the Chessie specialty derby at 9 months old......

    Pm me if interested.........

    Link to video the day I picked him up....

    http://www.retrievertraining.net/for...essie+retrieve
    Last edited by Beamer81; 11-01-2013 at 04:32 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by afdahl View Post
    For a disease that affects less than one in one-hundred Chesapeake Bay Retrievers, this severe a restriction on breeding will significantly limit the breed’s genetic diversity.

    /Dr. Bell

    Of course, everything in perspective. We may be doing more damage (to diversity) with OFA and overuse of popular sires than we would by striving not to produce "at risk" puppies.

    Amy Dahl
    Well, I personally know Tim Lockard who had the one Chesapeake known to have tested as a carrier and then become affected. What are the odds of that? Anyone good with math?

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    Sharon Potter I have heard great things about, I know she is a regular contributor on this forum! Otherwise, my personal experience is with Goldeneyes Chesapeakes in Forest City, IA. Chuck Bolinger has been raising Chesapeakes for nearly 30 years and has exceptional dogs. He is not as active in the hunt test/trial stuff anymore, but his dogs are gorgeous, healthy, trainable and all around nice dogs.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul "Happy" Gilmore View Post
    Well, I personally know Tim Lockard who had the one Chesapeake known to have tested as a carrier and then become affected. What are the odds of that? Anyone good with math?
    Last year everyone was arguing that a carrier could not become affected, now we have at least one. The bottom line is we need more research on this because with the fact that a carrier can also be affected it leaves a very small number of breed able stock if you want to be sure you are not adding affected dogs (only breeding clear x clear). Who knows maybe next year someone will have a clear also confirmed affected, the point being is the test leaves a lot to be desired and the ones who think it is the end all test are as bad as the ones who ignore it.
    Scott

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