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Thread: The Impact of the "Popular Sire"

  1. #11
    Senior Member .44 magnum's Avatar
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    EIC perfect example
    I don't think I smell like a brewery. I was drinking Scotch.

  2. #12
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    I've run boatmarks thrown to islands, back to the shore, and into cover on the opposit side of the boat from a few decoys .... none of which I would have considered appropiate to test pure conceptless Derby marking.

    john
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  3. #13
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    Gentleman I do not want to stray too far from the thread but I will respond again. I did not invent boat marks. I learned them. Minnesota , Wisconsin and North Dakota are places where you find this w/isolated places along the way. Most of you do not have clubs who own their own land , have clubhouses , barns/equipment to take out to the various stakes. Boats reguire effort ,workers and terrain.
    Drifting is prevented by throwing to cover on islands, points etc. I have run junior hunt tests out there where you run a dog out of a beached boat into water. My best participant derbies and I have run a few , were judged by folks who made their FC/AFC dogs and had high standards. You knew what your dog had to do , make it or break it. Once agin read the past issue of Field Trial Retriever News regarding their marking series.

  4. #14
    Senior Member copterdoc's Avatar
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    I love a good discussion on "Popular Sire Syndrome".

    But, I have to ask if anybody has actually considered exactly how dominant and recessive traits were "fixed" in order to make a Breed, a Breed.

    You know, to the point that you can breed any two random dogs within the Registry, and know with almost 100% certainty that ALL of the offspring produced will be affected with, or completely clear of, dozens of specific Autosomal Recessive traits that essentially define the Breed.
    Last edited by copterdoc; 02-25-2014 at 06:58 AM.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David McLendon View Post
    Humans have been messing up derby dogs for quite some time, to the point that it has altered how derbies are judged with regard to natural marking ability vs the well or most trained dog.
    When minor stake qualifications are so easy to obtain, what can we expect. Marking is what judges should be looking for, but don't punish well trained dogs by throwing contradicting water marks that allow cheaters to find success and the honest to get out in the area of the fall with a small hunt and get punished. Clubs need to make sure they aren't just allowing anyone to judge, put high point judges with newbies so they can learn how to setup Marking Tests if thats what they are looking for. A lot of these judges don't know the difference between marks and trained concepts. IMO clubs need to do more research when picking their minor stake judges and allow newbie judges to learn from good high point judges out there. If clubs are having problems finding experience judges, don't wait until the last minute.

  6. #16
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    Come to Ontario.....lots of boat marks in all stakes.

  7. #17
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    WBF - You nailed it !! The difference between training concepts and trial placement are two different critters. I still think young males who demonstrate high marking abilities are often overlooked in breeding programs due to the popular sire syndrome. One can't get out of the first series in an Amateur or 100 dog Open if your dog can't mark. Judges who set up cheating tests as marks in derby stakes should not judge or be overruled by a co-judge more knowledgeable.

  8. #18
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    Just a newbie with a dumb question but aren't all Marks baically training concepts??

    Quote Originally Posted by swliszka View Post
    WBF - You nailed it !! The difference between training concepts and trial placement are two different critters. I still think young males who demonstrate high marking abilities are often overlooked in breeding programs due to the popular sire syndrome. One can't get out of the first series in an Amateur or 100 dog Open if your dog can't mark. Judges who set up cheating tests as marks in derby stakes should not judge or be overruled by a co-judge more knowledgeable.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dexdoolittle View Post
    Just a newbie with a dumb question but aren't all Marks baically training concepts??

    Newbie huh? OK...
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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    Mick - Moneybird's Jumpin' Jack Flash***
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    Peerless - Moneybird's Sole Survivor
    (Two River's Lucky Willie x Moneybird's Black Magic Marker)

  10. #20
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    How did boat marks get into a genetics discussion?
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