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Thread: The Impact of the "Popular Sire"

  1. #21
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swliszka View Post
    WBF - You nailed it !! The difference between training concepts and trial placement are two different critters. I still think young males who demonstrate high marking abilities are often overlooked in breeding programs due to the popular sire syndrome. One can't get out of the first series in an Amateur or 100 dog Open if your dog can't mark. Judges who set up cheating tests as marks in derby stakes should not judge or be overruled by a co-judge more knowledgeable.
    Its simple, Don't setup a concept and try to judge it as a marking test. Judge what you setup don't punish good conceptual dog work. People train hard to teach water concepts and are proud when a dogs training shines in a big water test. Don't punish that, you set it up. Judge it!

  2. #22
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBF View Post
    When minor stake qualifications are so easy to obtain, what can we expect. Marking is what judges should be looking for, but don't punish well trained dogs by throwing contradicting water marks that allow cheaters to find success and the honest to get out in the area of the fall with a small hunt and get punished. Clubs need to make sure they aren't just allowing anyone to judge, put high point judges with newbies so they can learn how to setup Marking Tests if thats what they are looking for. A lot of these judges don't know the difference between marks and trained concepts. IMO clubs need to do more research when picking their minor stake judges and allow newbie judges to learn from good high point judges out there. If clubs are having problems finding experience judges, don't wait until the last minute.
    I wish it were that easy. I love reading these post about, "find better judges", "don't wait until the last minute to find judges", "this judge wants to make it a working vacation", etc... When was the last time you tried to find judges for your club? It is NOT easy!!! And where does one go to "research judges"? This sure got off topic quick.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Huff's Avatar
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    Clubs need to make sure they aren't just allowing anyone to judge, put high point judges with newbies so they can learn how to setup Marking Tests if thats what they are looking for.

    This statement is easier said than done. As the person who gets judges for 2 trials a year, getting minor stakes judges is the hardest thing to do. I try and get the best I can but it does not always work out that way. Ask anyone that gets judges and they will probably say the same thing. Normally people that think it is that easy is some one not doing the leg work to get the judges.

    Russell
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Huff's Avatar
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    Back to the topic that article is a very good read.

    Russell
    CH Chisholm Trail's Backdraft Bay MH**
    Chisholm Trail's Crossfire Sophie JH**
    "I say goodbye to my weakness, so long to the regrets"

  5. #25
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rboudet View Post
    I wish it were that easy. I love reading these post about, "find better judges", "don't wait until the last minute to find judges", "this judge wants to make it a working vacation", etc... When was the last time you tried to find judges for your club? It is NOT easy!!! And where does one go to "research judges"? This sure got off topic quick.
    To answer your question, last week. I've chaired several events for our club and yes if you do a little research and don't just pick who's arms are up waving for the position you can put experienced judges with those who are new. I've done plenty of leg work. Russell you do a good job for Sooner thank you.
    Last edited by WBF; 02-25-2014 at 09:59 AM.

  6. #26
    Senior Member rboudet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBF View Post
    To answer your question, last week. I've chaired several events for our club and yes if you do a little research and don't just pick who's arms are up waving for the position you can put experienced judges with those who are new. I've done plenty of leg work. Russell you do a good job for Sooner thank you.
    Please show me these people that have their hands waving to judge? They don't exist down here. How do you not put experienced judges with a new judge? If one is just starting out the other must have the points to carry the newbie. No way around that.

  7. #27
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    More to look at than just who can carry who. You are setting a new judge up for failure if you don't try to find someone they can learn from.



  8. #28
    Senior Member Buzz's Avatar
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    I have only judged five minor stakes, three of them derby. I will tell you, it is VERY difficult to get separation in a field of derby dogs, especially when you are expected to get through 4 series in a day with 35-40 starters, 90% of whom are run by pros. For me it is infinitely easier to set up a qualifying test and although I have not judged an all-age stake, I would venture to guess that it would be MUCH easier for me than judging minor stakes and especially DERBY! At least then you normally have better grounds to work with and if you need to you can throw a test at them that has everything including the kitchen sink in it and not be chastised.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Ted Shih's Avatar
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    Marking/Judging worthwhile topics but belong on another thread for more discussion
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  10. #30
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I have only judged five minor stakes, three of them derby. I will tell you, it is VERY difficult to get separation in a field of derby dogs, especially when you are expected to get through 4 series in a day with 35-40 starters, 90% of whom are run by pros. For me it is infinitely easier to set up a qualifying test and although I have not judged an all-age stake, I would venture to guess that it would be MUCH easier for me than judging minor stakes and especially DERBY! At least then you normally have better grounds to work with and if you need to you can throw a test at them that has everything including the kitchen sink in it and not be chastised.
    I totally agree with you. Whats crazy is that anyone can judge the minor stakes by passing an open book test with little to no experience but yet they seem to be the hardest to judge. Judge 2 or 3 now your an "Experienced" judge. haha.
    Last edited by WBF; 02-25-2014 at 11:44 AM.

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