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Thread: Can't !

  1. #1
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Default Can't !

    Can't use CC
    Can't use FF
    Can't use Clicker
    Can't use Treats/Food

    Dog is a keen retriever but drops around the 2 yard spot!
    When sent out at 2 yards,It still drops it then comes back in!
    Force hold is out!!

    The dog has been to two separate trainers and is wise to the above, but will still pick up the bumper/or game ,but drops at the 2 yard spot.
    It is not food orientated ,after three days of nothing (refusing the grub- not withholding it) and looks at treats as 'no value'!

    Any advice from across the water?......
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  2. #2
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Why is force hold out ??????? You say he is wise to it??????????? Believe me if its taught and reinforced he can be as wise as he wants. There will be a bit of repercussion if he doesn't. Jim
    Last edited by jd6400; 11-05-2013 at 01:11 PM.
    Jim Weitzel
    Proud member of Ole Roy prostaff

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    Find dumber dog, then try FF again.

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    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Stop throwing a new one when he drops the old one. Encourage him to come closer to you by backing up and teasing with an identical object. If you can get him to let you touch the object before he drops it, immediately throw him another one. Teach him that by delivering to hand he gets to go again. Getting it started might be tough given how many times he's probably been rewarded for dropping it (with a new retrieve), but you can change the expectation if you put in the time and get creative about things.

    Might want to keep the initial action within the 2 yard limit so he learns to hold an object there first, then more onto bigger retrieves. Might also need to start out by just touching the object then moving onto actually taking it. You just have to start by getting him to hold for a half second and build up from there.

    I thought those European dogs came out of the womb force fetched, guess not all of them
    Darrin Greene

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    Senior Member Jennifer Henion's Avatar
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    What Darrin said and I would add this very controversial idea: Tug of war. Not with game of course, but with a toy. Go back to square one, sit on the floor and play tug with a rope toy or something. Use or teach a release command then "GOOD" then toss toy a few inches, start playing tug again. Throw it farther and farther and upon return, play tug a less and less and use release command then "GOOD" then throw it.

    It works for soft mouth dogs. I know you are a trainer with enough experience to know whether this dog could handle the tug game without it becomming a problem with game.

  6. #6
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Thanks !
    Darrin, This one is what I would call 'Smarter than the average Bear'?...So many of the usual techniques have been attempted by others (rightly or wrongly) I can't say?..
    The 2 yard point is a ''drop'' and keep on trucking!! ?...
    I agree, that keeping everything at the 2 yard limit is the place to be.
    This one , won't even hold on to a Bone! ...It is under 2 years old,so It's not too in-grained.
    The pick up and initial hold is great,and the return. It just does not want to hold it at that 2 yard point!!.
    I tried a dizzied bird earlier today, same thing!..It even stopped on it's own and let the bird walk away?
    One Shooter One Spaniel One Retriever

  7. #7
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Ya might have to hold onto the little booger and show him (gently) what you want. The tug idea is a good one also, IF he'll play. I have one that I play tug with in OB demonstrations every single day and she is plenty soft mouthed with a bird. I suppose it could backfire on ya but as Dad used to say... "can't hurt a terd"

    Oh and on the tug thing, just get him going and when his mouth is quiet but he still has a hold on the object GIVE IT TO HIM. Let him win a lot so he doesn't think that every time he gets to you he has to give it up.

    These things are quite counter to most retriever basics over here (and probably over there) but you have quite the opposite problem of most people.

    BTW it sounds like he may have gotten whacked in the bean one to many times as a pup and doesn't want to come close now.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 11-05-2013 at 03:26 PM.
    Darrin Greene

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    Teach no-force hold. If you teach a dog to sit why can't you teach hold?

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    Here is my ha'penny bit of advice:

    It sounds like the dog has been able to set the standard for delivery and you only need to recalibrate it for him. Don't assume the other trainers have done their work to the standard you require"...So many of the usual techniques have been attempted by others (rightly or wrongly) I can't say?.." back up in training to a reasonable starting point for proper delivery to hand.
    Re-visit FF all the way through walking fetch. During walking fetch(on 6 ft. leash)you set the tempo and are reenforcing pick up and hold the instant a command is given or broken. When dog is order to fetch, keep moving, try to never stand and wait for the dog to catch up, just keep moving. Failure on the dog's part to come to heal quickly with bumper in mouth gets a leash correction, dropping bumper gets an ear pinch as quickly as the infraction occurs. I doubt you need this bit but: be calm and as unemotional as possible when administering corrections and use no more force than required and use calming praise whenever appropriate.

    When you believe that the dog understands your standard for hold and delivery, start throwing bumpers a short distance by hand with the dog on a long line, maintain same standard of performance a la walking fetch with the long line as you would have done on the leash. Repeat until you are certain the standard is well understood by the dog before allowing him any retrieves off lead.
    power without lumber, raciness without weediness

    A big man never looks down on others.... instead, he is someone to look up to.

  10. #10
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Don't know the answer but I am curious if the dog spits out the bird while being reeled in the last two feet on a check cord?
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

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