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  1. #31
    Senior Member Ken Bora's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=polmaise;1160720]'This One' , breaks down immediately Bridget,so you don't even get to first base.
    When you 'play' tuggy or attract even attention ,it goes 'belly up' !.[/QUOTE]

    seen this in a couple Chesapeake "Drama Queens". tether on a grooming table. dog can not go belly up. dog can not go any place at all. you are able to work calmly on hold and fetch. I have moved to the ground for FF now
    BUT...
    a table is still handy for some squirley dogs to hold um in place so you can teach
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    'This One' , breaks down immediately Bridget,so you don't even get to first base.
    When you 'play' tuggy or attract even attention ,it goes 'belly up' !
    Best I've managed in the last three days is a sit and hold on a table with a bone. That lasted about 20 seconds , she now won't go near the bone.
    OK that makes better sense.....I have always said what you allow a dog to do , you are teaching them to do. So first she would be not allowed to belly up..... the 20 seconds sounds like a start, keep building .
    Who cares if she does not like the bone , she can still hold it... I force with bumpers and some dogs go "off" bumpers for a period , but when the job is done and they realize that bumper in mouth is a happy place , they like them again.
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  3. #33
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Best I got!!
    Yup, this one sure is squirley Ken Bora!
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  4. #34
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    I was training with my pro this weekend and he had a dog in the kennel with the same problem. He told the owner to turn and walk away from the dog when he got within a few feet. The dog would follow with the bird. The owner was to reach down and grab the bird when the dog got close. Seemed to work.

  5. #35
    Senior Member 8mmag's Avatar
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    Have you tried the most simple of all...turn and RUN the other way as the dog is approaching you on the return? Make the dog want to close the distance further and snatch it as the dog passes you.
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  6. #36
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    I'm dealing with one of those lay down and roll over dogs right now. No problem, tied her to a post (since I don't have a FF table) and worked through it... got it all worked out now and she's doing fine. In fact, she's happier than ever to retrieve. You said FF wasn't an option so I tried to offer some alternate ideas.

    Here's one...

    Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, this particular dog is going to require so much effort that keeping her for a pet and getting a more suitable hunting dog might be the most practical answer

    I have two labs... for a reason
    Darrin Greene

  7. #37

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    Like Darrin stated tie it to a post. One collar on the post snug it down tight. You can screw the collar to the post or attach it with wire. Run the 2nd collar thru the first and snug it down tight as well. Don't choke the dog but it needs to be tight enough that the dog cannot "set back" and get loose. If the dog gets loose it will set your training back. The best picture I have seen of this was in a Delmar Smith video. Cant find a copy of it on the internet. Work on fetch with the dog snugged up to the post. Same with hold. It sounds to me that they have let the dog use the rolling on its back (avoidance behavior) to dictate the training sessions. I would also start with a canvas bumper or a paint roller since the dog will be more inclined to hold it. With hard plastic dummies soft mouthed dogs have a tendency at first to let it slide out or drop when the bumper gets slick from the dog's saliva.

    My labs have all been pretty docile when it came to force fetch. My pointers and short hairs were another story. Most would try to bite, claw, set back and scratch before giving and and accepting the force fetch. Once they got it they all became reliable retrievers. The force fetch process also works out the pecking order/dominance relationship between the dog and the trainer just like obedience. The most important thing is to keep emotion out of the process. Don't get mad, patience and persistance will win in the end. My wife is much smaller and weaker than me and she wears me down and gets her way in the end.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by polmaise View Post
    Can't use CC
    Can't use FF
    Can't use Clicker
    Can't use Treats/Food

    Dog is a keen retriever but drops around the 2 yard spot!
    When sent out at 2 yards,It still drops it then comes back in!
    Force hold is out!!

    The dog has been to two separate trainers and is wise to the above, but will still pick up the bumper/or game ,but drops at the 2 yard spot.
    It is not food orientated ,after three days of nothing (refusing the grub- not withholding it) and looks at treats as 'no value'!

    Any advice from across the water?......
    WoW.
    Why in the world can't you simply re-enforce HERE, and teach the dog to HOLD? If it were me I'd get a lead on, a bumper in his mouth, and have him carry it for "5 miles" on a walk untill he learned to SIT, HOLD and DROP on command, and only in my hand and on a command.
    Geeze, is that allowed over there?

    Don't care if it takes 100,000 REPS, the dog wouldn't retrieve another bird/bumper until he understands HERE, HOLD and DROP.

    What in the world is "force-hold"? Is that when you re-enforce a known command, i.e., HOLD?
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  9. #39
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampbilly View Post
    WoW.
    Why in the world can't you simply re-enforce HERE, and teach the dog to HOLD? If it were me I'd get a lead on, a bumper in his mouth, and have him carry it for "5 miles" on a walk untill he learned to SIT, HOLD and DROP on command, and only in my hand and on a command.
    Geeze, is that allowed over there?

    Don't care if it takes 100,000 REPS, the dog wouldn't retrieve another bird/bumper until he understands HERE, HOLD and DROP.


    What in the world is "force-hold"? Is that when you re-enforce a known command, i.e., HOLD?
    Yea my thoughts exactly.force hold is all we did back in the day.We used lip pinch.
    My opinion the dog can lay on its back and pee straight up in the air but its gonna hold it!
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  10. #40
    Senior Member polmaise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampbilly View Post
    WoW.
    Why in the world can't you simply re-enforce HERE, and teach the dog to HOLD? If it were me I'd get a lead on, a bumper in his mouth, and have him carry it for "5 miles" on a walk untill he learned to SIT, HOLD and DROP on command, and only in my hand and on a command.
    Geeze, is that allowed over there?

    Don't care if it takes 100,000 REPS, the dog wouldn't retrieve another bird/bumper until he understands HERE, HOLD and DROP.

    What in the world is "force-hold"? Is that when you re-enforce a known command, i.e., HOLD?
    Reading the dog, I think that is what has been attempted by a previous trainer and 'Failed'! ? Or something has not been followed through.
    When you get them from clients , the whole story is sometimes not given,or bits are left out.
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