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Thread: Goldberg on Christie vs Cruz

  1. #1
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Default Goldberg on Christie vs Cruz

    I got tired of watching O'Reilly and his self promoting,bloviating ways but just happened to catch his "Weekdays with Bernie" segment..I like Mr Goldberg because of his pragmatic approach to politics and his take on the media, and how they are intellectually dishonest with much of its content...His take on Christie vs Cruz and the TEA Party in general makes you stop and think

    >>>>>>>>>>

    Those sophisticates at Time magazine made a funny. They put Chris Christie on their cover with the headline, “The Elephant in the Room.” Get it? Elephant. Christie. Time magazine did a junior high fat joke right there on its cover. Time’s executive editor Michael Duffy explained the cheap shot this way: “Well, he’s obviously a big guy. He’s obviously a big Republican. But he’s also done a really huge thing here this week.”

    The “huge thing” wasn’t only winning re-election as New Jersey’s governor, but doing it by appealing to a broad range of voters in a very blue state – not just to his conservative base.

    But, hey, no harm no foul. Time isn’t even a newsmagazine anymore. It became a liberal journal of opinion a long time ago. So you can just hear those wild and crazy journalists at Time sitting around the conference room table giggling about how they’d get away with their fat joke because, well, in the world of politics, the word “elephant” isn’t a synonym with “fatso.”

    But do you think the gang at Time would ever say Barack Obama is a “dark horse.” In the world of politics “dark” doesn’t mean “black,” right?

    Time’s cover doesn’t necessarily mean that Chris Christie is the GOP frontrunner for 2016. It’s way too early for that. But it does help make him the flavor of the month. He was also on all the Sunday TV talk shows this week. You don’t get to do that unless you’re the flavor of the month, or at least of the week.

    Besides, he’s a favorite of liberal journalists, not only because he’s got a big mouth which makes for some interesting quotes, but also because he’s not the most conservative Republican out there. For the same reasons they despise Ted Cruz, they adore Chris Christie. For now.

    But if he becomes a serious threat to one of their all-time favs, Hillary Clinton, the so-called mainstream media will turn on Christie with a vengeance. They hated Goldwater and Reagan while they were alive, painting them as crazy right-wing ideologues. When they were dead, they became good conservatives – to contrast them with every other conservative who was still breathing.

    It’s a good bet Christie will run. And if he does, he’s charismatic enough to cause the Democrats some sleepless nights. But Christie’s greatest strength is also his greatest weakness.

    Christie can win in a deep blue state like New Jersey because he’s not a hard right Tea Party type. That means he can win the support of women and minorities – crucial to winning a nationwide election. But the hard right sees him as the latest incarnation of John McCain and Mitt Romney – two moderates who lost.

    Chris Christie can attract moderates and independents that would give him a shot in swing states that Republicans must win to take the White House. He could win Florida and Ohio and North Carolina and Colorado and New Hampshire, and maybe even Iowa and New Mexico. But he might not be able to win his party’s nomination because it’s conservatives who make up the majority of primary voters, and they – at least as of now – don’t want a Chris Christie. They want a Ted Cruz or a Rand Paul or some other candidate who can’t win a national election despite what they think.

    What the hard right needs to understand is that if they really want change, first they have to win elections. I know it sounds obvious, but it’s one of those obvious facts the Tea Party never seemed able to grasp. They picked a bad candidate in Nevada a few years back when a good candidate might have defeated Harry Reid. And they picked a candidate in Delaware who had to go on TV and tell everyone that she’s not a witch. She also lost. And there have been other Tea Party favorites who appealed to the hard right base, but because that’s never enough, they also lost.

    The Tea Party folks are very proud of the fact that they stand on principle. Bulletin: so do less hardline Republicans. But the hard right calls everyone to the left of Ted Cruz a RINO, a Republican in name only. The Tea Party won’t like this, but the real RINOs are the Tea Party people. They’ve been very clear that their allegiance is to pure conservatism, not to the Republican Party. Yes, my right wing friends, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul and the others on the far right are the real RINOs.

    Because I want Republicans to win, let me offer two pieces of advice. The first to Chris Christie:

    Don’t pick a fight with your own base, the conservatives who at the moment don’t really like you. As Ross Douthat puts in his New York Times column: “As a would-be nominee, you have to woo base voters, not run against them, and make them feel respected even when they disagree with you. This doesn’t mean muzzling yourself, or pandering to every right-wing interest group. But it means persuading conservatives that you like them, that you understand them and that as president you’re going to be (mostly) on their side.”

    In other words, fight the temptation to go along with liberal journalists who believe the GOP is a party of right-wing morons. Don’t get drawn in by their phony admiration for you.

    The second piece of advice is for the Tea Party and other purists on the right. If it looks like Chris Christie can win, jump on his bandwagon. Give him your support. And do you best to be passionate about it. If you don’t, you’ll have up to eight years of Mrs. Clinton. No matter how you feel about Christie, he’s a lot better than another liberal Democrat, right?

    The answer to that last question is obviously yes. But true believers sometimes don’t think rationally. I’m cautiously optimistic that Chris Christie could win in 2016 (although cautiously hopeful may come closer to my real feelings). But I’m pessimistic about his chances of winning the support of his own party. Fundamentalists – political, religious or any other kind – don’t like to bend. Sometimes I think they’d rather lose than compromise. Rush Limbaugh, after all, can barely get the word “compromise” out of his mouth without gagging. To him, compromise is caving in. He’s a lot like Barrack Obama in that respect.

    And so the real elephants in the room are those purist conservatives who will have to decide how badly they want to win. It’s still early, but I fear too many of them would rather lose with Ted Cruz than win with Chris Christie.
    - See more at: http://www.bernardgoldberg.com/hones....MQW6Iq3S.dpuf
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

  2. #2
    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    There is some truth to what Goldberg says: Christie would be better than Hillary. However, both Romney and McCain would be, too (much as I don't like McCain). But if that approach has not won elections before, why would it do so now?

    The independents are no longer enchanted with Obama and his policies. My sense is that the polls are changing most for Obama among independents. Can one really separate Hillary from the Obama administration? Can she be separated from his international policies? Would be very hard to do that since she was Secty of State. Can she be separated from O-care? Might not be easy since she was the base of Hillarycare which was rejected.

    How could Hillary get away with blaming the last President for the US's mess of an economy, national debt, and ME policy? Suppose she could say that Obama didn't have enough time to fix everything?

    I'm not sure that Christie can get away with his temperamental outbursts as a President, the way he can as a Governor. He could have asked for help for NJ post-Sandy without doing the photo-ops with Obama. Why didn't he? I'm thinking it was a way to make himself look better to blue NJ voters.

    I don't trust him. That last, I admit, is just intuitive. Got that same feeling about Clinton and Obama. Maybe it's something I see in the body language or voice inflections when I hear/see them speak. Not quite the same as Clinton as Obama, but what I see is more of a blowhard ... someone who thinks they know more about how things should be done than he really knows. For those who feel he is one who can compromise and "reconcile", his dealings in NJ have not been without some real abrasive feelings being generated.
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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    I don't think a Chris Christie can win, period. In regards to McCain losing, the Repubs were in a deep hole after 8 years of Bush and this country was not going to elect another Repub, even if Reagan himself arose from his grave. The Repubs best chance of ever taking back the White House might depend on just how big of a disaster O-care turns out to be. But even that might not be enough to win the WH if the vast majority can not relate to the Repub's message. And, if the Repubs do update their platform, they risk the loss to the Religious Right. Then, there is the Third Party candidate, a traditional Conservative that should receive more that the 1.27 million votes he received in 2012. The difference being that this time Gov Gary Johnson will have some money from the Purple Pack behind him as well as other donations.
    Last edited by Franco; 11-14-2013 at 03:35 PM.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



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    Senior Member Gerry Clinchy's Avatar
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    Why do we assume that "The Religious Right" will only vote for some candidate who says they will reverse Roe-Wade, or some such thing?

    Polls even a majority of individuals are against 3rd trimester abortions except when there is no other choice. What makes us think that RR will not vote for a candidate who is against 3T abortions?

    I do not think that a candidate has to be a born-again to win the RR vote. I do think that a candidate has to have some moral spine to get that vote. There may be some wingnuts among the RR segment, but I think most of them are more tolerant than the LGBT segment of the liberals.

    One might stop to think that many RR groups who are black still voted for Obama ... so nothing about the RR perspective is engraved in granite.
    G.Clinchy@gmail.com
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    Senior Member Franco's Avatar
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    Because that is pretty much the "smell test' for the deep south and much of the mid-west and the vast majority of the Teas. It is the issue that fires up their base and a reason why the Dems have been so effective in winning the female vote. If perception is in fact reality, the Dems have done a good job promoting the Repubs War on Women. We have a Senate race next year. In going to the Repub challenger's website, the biggest type on his website next to the size of his name and office he is running for are the words, "Right To Life". All of which tells most that the challenger is a one-issue candidate that doesn't have and hasn't provided any information on how he would grow the state's economy.
    Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. Calvin Coolidge



  6. #6
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerry Clinchy View Post
    Why do we assume that "The Religious Right" will only vote for some candidate who says they will reverse Roe-Wade, or some such thing?

    Polls even a majority of individuals are against 3rd trimester abortions except when there is no other choice. What makes us think that RR will not vote for a candidate who is against 3T abortions?

    I do not think that a candidate has to be a born-again to win the RR vote. I do think that a candidate has to have some moral spine to get that vote. There may be some wingnuts among the RR segment, but I think most of them are more tolerant than the LGBT segment of the liberals.

    One might stop to think that many RR groups who are black still voted for Obama ... so nothing about the RR perspective is engraved in granite.
    my brother Jerry in Colorado is part of that RR..and God bless him but he and his kind just wont let go of that issue...I respect him for it, and I understand his deep beliefs...I just dont go all in on THAT particular issue..it is an election loser...you win that issue in SCOTUS with winnable cases at the STATE level, and that takes MONEY to back the best legal teams

    people scoffed at the SCOTUS angle and look what happened BHO has nominated TWO judges and may get two more before he is done...look how Roberts voted on the ACA...elections do have consequences
    All my Exes live in Texas

    Quote Originally Posted by lanse brown View Post
    A few things that I learned still ring true. "Lanse when you get a gift, say thank you and walk away. When you get a screwing walk away. You are going to get a lot more screwings than gifts"

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