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Thread: Anyone had success with this issue?

  1. #21
    Member duckdogs167's Avatar
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    Jennifer I was explain my training the other day with quiet command. I have never had to tell her quiet once I got her to understand that being vocal was not acceptable. That was what I was trying to explain to teach the dog. I have had to give quiet command while getting ready to honor but that's it. So with others say say quiet while dog is running test is not what I was explain to do. Just teach it being vocal is not acceptable. A pro friend of mine taught me to do it that way.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridget Bodine View Post
    She stopped coming up here immediately after swim by so I am not sure when it started, and the last time I trained with her (prob 2 yrs ago) it was just a few barks on the whistle in the water. SO what was your advice to her?
    My advice to her was to reward desirable behavior and punish undesirable behavior, although, if she gave me the dog we would go all the way back to formal obedience and start from there, addressing the frustration as we went along. The dog needs to learn a new sit standard.

    Given where she is and the fact that there's no way she's taking the dog off the test/trial circuit for the 6 mos - 1 year I think it would take to extinct the behavior, the band-aid would be to set her up to both fail and succeed, and teach her the difference in a meaningful way.

    Unfortunately the owner has been rewarded for inappropriate behavior on the part of the dog and has developed a set of training habits that will plague every dog she owns henceforth.

    If she ever gets a real high roller with some actual bottom on her hands, she's going to be in deep deep trouble and I really feel for the poor dog who, despite getting the very best home with the most love it could ever get from a human being, will be nagged to death until the day it dies.

    LOVE this person. Really do. She has a lot of knowledge and experience, and has done very well with her dogs. She really ought to try +r only. I think she'd do well and be happy with that strategy. I really think she would do great if she put her e-collar down and used the patience and love she has to train a dog the way she really wants to.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 11-14-2013 at 12:22 AM.
    Darrin Greene

  3. #23
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    So what was your advice for punishment?
    I am pretty sure you know, working with a person 1 or 2 times a month, you cannot ever know what goes on at home , nor control it and can only deal with the dog you see on the day. My standard for my dogs is pretty high, the standard other people allow, I can only comment on and hope they see the light.
    Other than the noise , I don't know how bad the dog can be if she has not EVER failed a test through MH, QAA, BUt I have not seen her run. I did see her in passing one day as I was going to SH and saw that she had some pretty happy feet on the line.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member DarrinGreene's Avatar
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    Punishment would start with denying the retrieve and ramp up from there until I found a level of aversiveness that got the point across. She had already attempted a short call in (denial) but I think it could be taken much further and that the therapy should start on land, not in the water.

    I showed the effectiveness of the strategy with a simple push pull drill on land. Two bumpers, 45 deg separated, 10 yards distance. Push/pull/push/pull... didn't take many reps for her to get frustrated and start barking. Sit NICK (on a very low number based on her reaction), Push or pull and she'll be quiet on the next repetition. Send the dog. Take bumper and replace bumper, start again. Mix up success and failure. Send on the second push/pull (before she barks) sometimes, do 3-5 on others, 8-10 on others, until she is either completely silent or makes noise. You could make up any number of drills that deny the dog immediate gratification and work with the resulting frustration. Switching to birds probably ups the ante, so I would do that at some point. Then go to a swim-by type pond and try to transfer the learning. Final step, all throughout her life, you have to get rid of frustration based barking, from the agility ring to the kitchen.

    This is just my opinion based on how dogs learn from the consequences of their actions (good or bad). I never did get to see it through and fix the problem. Randy or someone else may have a different approach and say mine is bullshirt but it's pretty straightforward and logical.

    First things first though, she has to recognize the fact that the dog is running her vs. the other way around and get rid of the emotional baggage that's stopping her from making appropriate corrections.

    She would use her collar a lot less if she used it infrequently, but in a meaningful manner.

    In the meantime judges keep rewarding the dog, and thus the handler, so I wouldn't expect to see any change, nor would I change personally, if I were in the same position.
    Last edited by DarrinGreene; 11-14-2013 at 06:36 PM.
    Darrin Greene

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