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Thread: Primers in manual winger releases legal at HT?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Codatango View Post
    What I 'remember' reading is that you cannot use remote control devices or electronics to activate wingers. And "kick-type" wingers are all that is allowed. To me, that says that any Zinger Winger type and even pulling a rope is not allowed. It's a safety issue.

    Debbie
    There is nothing in the AKC REGULATIONS that forbids the use of a zinger or gunners up type device with a pull cord OR a remote.

    In fact there is nothing in the AKC REGULATIONS about ANY bird throwing device.-Paul
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  2. #12
    Senior Member DoubleHaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitty View Post

    The issue to me is the sound. The primers are not very loud.
    They are not, but at hunt test distances, the dog is going to look over at the station as soon as it hears the sound of the winger.

    Barring extreme circumstances, I don't think it would be a problem at any hunt test. At a FT, I agree with Breck. Wingers are used far less often at FTs, most often only at the flyer station. With those long guns, not having the movement of the thrower would make it very hard for the dog, IMO.

  3. #13
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleHaul View Post
    They are not, but at hunt test distances, the dog is going to look over at the station as soon as it hears the sound of the winger.

    Barring extreme circumstances, I don't think it would be a problem at any hunt test. At a FT, I agree with Breck. Wingers are used far less often at FTs, most often only at the flyer station. With those long guns, not having the movement of the thrower would make it very hard for the dog, IMO.
    On the one hand, I am thinking of the primer shot as a noise that gets the dog's attention, but more importantly I believe you need the sound of real gun fire in a hunt test. The use of wimpy primers is one step further from the experience of a real hunting scenario.

    The live gun shot is exciting for the dogs, it affects their performance in my (very limited) experience.
    Renee P

  4. #14
    Member chessiedog's Avatar
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    I clarified with an AKC official that they is no problem using primers. Any noise making device may ne used as long as it gets the dogs attention. The exact quote was:

    "As long as the "noise" making device accomplishes its purpose (getting the dogs attention) then the mechanism is alright. The 209 primer makes a sufficient noise as long as the distances are not too great or the wind is not out of the wrong direction. There is no Regulation stipulating that shotgun blanks have to be used"

    With that said, I have seen several clubs moving to these types of wingers/primers. Our club is looking at them as well.

    As for the cadence of the shot/bird in a HT, there is not certain sequence that has to be followed. The purpose of the shot is to get the dogs attention only. As long as it does, and they see the bird, then it has served its purpose. There are judges that like a certain sequence. In those cases, clubs should have shotgun poppers available.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Elliott Labradors's Avatar
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    I have but one bit of advice to add to this topic. It will be almost impossible to meet every single suggested requirement in a Hunt Test. If we must "fall short" in any given area......I say do not "fall short" on the safety of the kid manning the station for the sake of a poochy lipped handler that doesn't think his dog will be given a fair audible.
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  6. #16
    Senior Member Good Dogs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Labradors View Post
    .....I say do not "fall short" on the safety of the kid manning the station for the sake of a poochy lipped handler that doesn't think his dog will be given a fair audible.
    Wally
    Wally,
    "Poochy lipped handler?!" Hilarious and a new classic. Thanks for adding to our vocabulary.

  7. #17
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    I don't worry about the sound of the primer being loud enough. The few field trial pros I have trained with use 209 pistols regularly. The cadence is probably more of an issue. I see lots of dogs miss marks because of the echo of the popper loads. It is easier, cheaper & safer to use 209's or Thunders. What advantage does a regular popper load have?
    Mark Land

  8. #18
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    Zman
    The winger you talk about is not a kick style winger! Go to www.trainrite.net and you will see it is a step down release. it was designed for both launching birds and keeping both feet on the ground when shooting birds.
    Warren Price
    www.trainrite.net

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman1001 View Post
    I have judged an event where the wingers that were used were Kick Start. But, they also had a primer in them, so when kicked, the shot was fired. They actually were the Train-Rite Wingers, with the kick start (Manual, not electronic).

    I had no problem with them as a judge, as they did their job.
    w. price

  9. #19
    Senior Member Erik Nilsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rookie View Post
    Zman
    The winger you talk about is not a kick style winger! Go to www.trainrite.net and you will see it is a step down release. it was designed for both launching birds and keeping both feet on the ground when shooting birds.
    Warren Price
    www.trainrite.net
    Those are the wingers our club owns, easy to use and I have had to do very little maintenance on them
    HRC- Our season never ends

    "Shoot fast or shoot last"

    HR UH Nilsson's on a wing n a prayer SH WCX

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rookie View Post
    Zman
    The winger you talk about is not a kick style winger! Go to www.trainrite.net and you will see it is a step down release. it was designed for both launching birds and keeping both feet on the ground when shooting birds.
    Warren Price
    www.trainrite.net
    Warren,

    They were train rite. Whether it is kick start, or step down, it still required use of a foot. Did not mean to imply something about your product that obviously is not, but really is just semantics

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