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Thread: Left back and left over confusion

  1. #1
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    Default Left back and left over confusion

    11 month old has been doing left and right backs on the T drill for over a month. Today she did fine on her left and right backs until I gave her a left over followed by a left back. She tried to go on a left over I whistled sit another left back she goes left over another whistle sit brought her back to the center ( all done from baseball position). Gave her a left back she gets confused because she wants to go left over but noes it's incorrect so she wines. I had to throw a bumper behind her step to the left to make her take a left back. The reason I revisited this is because I got a few cast refusal from her and wanted to address it

    question what could have called this regression and should I start all back over with 3 handed cast drills

  2. #2
    Senior Member BonMallari's Avatar
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    a couple of questions before I offer solutions

    1. are you giving either cast accompanied by a "verbal" back or over...because a verbal has a tendency to drive a dog back

    2.is it possible that the difference in your two casts is so minimal to the dog that the dog is confused and actually believes its complied with your command

    3. are you giving the dog a "nick" for both commands, once again the nick is identical and the dog may think its complied

    4. what did you do when you got a refusal ?

    there are many solutions but the one I learned from Roy McFall works best for me. He taught me to give my over cast with my hand starting by my side almost in my pocket(as opposed to throwing the cast from my chest),almost like a sideways cast as if the dog was by your side..I also throw it without a verbal and take a step in that direction....with this method there is a distinct difference between an over and a back and even an angled back
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    Cast and a verbal. No nicks start with hands in front then slide left. She has been doing fine just today she went crazy

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    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
    11 month old has been doing left and right backs on the T drill for over a month. Today she did fine on her left and right backs until I gave her a left over followed by a left back. She tried to go on a left over I whistled sit another left back she goes left over another whistle sit brought her back to the center ( all done from baseball position). Gave her a left back she gets confused because she wants to go left over but noes it's incorrect so she wines. I had to throw a bumper behind her step to the left to make her take a left back. The reason I revisited this is because I got a few cast refusal from her and wanted to address it

    question what could have called this regression and should I start all back over with 3 handed cast drills
    Make sure that there are not other factors involved to impede her success.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Clayton Evans's Avatar
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    There are days with youngsters this age where you think they have lost it all only to come back the next day and find out they haven't forgotten. Right now I would just be making a fun game. If you have to throw to the back pile, do it so she is successful every time. Ad lots of praise when she does it right and that my friend is called teaching. If she/he has been on the T field a month probably bored out of his or her mind. So take a brake and do some marks so it becomes fun again.
    Clay
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    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    a couple of questions before I offer solutions

    1. are you giving either cast accompanied by a "verbal" back or over...because a verbal has a tendency to drive a dog back

    2.is it possible that the difference in your two casts is so minimal to the dog that the dog is confused and actually believes its complied with your command

    3. are you giving the dog a "nick" for both commands, once again the nick is identical and the dog may think its complied

    4. what did you do when you got a refusal ?

    there are many solutions but the one I learned from Roy McFall works best for me. He taught me to give my over cast with my hand starting by my side almost in my pocket(as opposed to throwing the cast from my chest),almost like a sideways cast as if the dog was by your side..I also throw it without a verbal and take a step in that direction....with this method there is a distinct difference between an over and a back and even an angled back

    The best advice I have heard on casting ...I teach belt high, head high and straight up....The larger the difference between the cast the easier it is for the dog to understand...You haven't finished ( perfected ) the casting until the dog will take overs and backs from the same hand with out a mistake..More reps ,take your time ,show and tell if necessary...As mentioned above a side step with the over and no movement with the back will help the dog understand the two cast ...Hang in there ...You are not the only one that has had this issue....Steve S
    "Your dog learns as much by doing his work right,by your praise and encouragement, as he does by your displeasure and correction." DLWalters

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    Senior Member RJW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
    11 month old has been doing left and right backs on the T drill for over a month. Today she did fine on her left and right backs until I gave her a left over followed by a left back. She tried to go on a left over I whistled sit another left back she goes left over another whistle sit brought her back to the center ( all done from baseball position). Gave her a left back she gets confused because she wants to go left over but noes it's incorrect so she wines. I had to throw a bumper behind her step to the left to make her take a left back. The reason I revisited this is because I got a few cast refusal from her and wanted to address it

    question what could have called this regression and should I start all back over with 3 handed cast drills

    Don't feel like you are the only one. We(my dog and I) are working on a similar situation as well. Except ours is getting confused with the left back and wants to continually go right back regardless of what hand I use. It is just another process that takes time.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skinny View Post
    11 month old has been doing left and right backs on the T drill for over a month. Today she did fine on her left and right backs until I gave her a left over followed by a left back. She tried to go on a left over I whistled sit another left back she goes left over another whistle sit brought her back to the center ( all done from baseball position). Gave her a left back she gets confused because she wants to go left over but noes it's incorrect so she wines. I had to throw a bumper behind her step to the left to make her take a left back. The reason I revisited this is because I got a few cast refusal from her and wanted to address it

    question what could have called this regression and should I start all back over with 3 handed cast drills
    One of many beneficial things about the drills of Basics is that you have the choice to back up a step or two when needed to simplify a task. Nothing wrong with a session or two of 3HC to focus on these cast combinations. Sharpen the concept, and return to the T. When you do, move up to your first casting apex, and run multiple casting combinations, and work on those within the T. Back up and increase distance sequentially as you begin running your Go, Stop, Cast routine; simplify as needed. You're in Basics. Keep it simple.

    Evan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clayton Evans View Post
    There are days with youngsters this age where you think they have lost it all only to come back the next day and find out they haven't forgotten. Right now I would just be making a fun game. If you have to throw to the back pile, do it so she is successful every time. Ad lots of praise when she does it right and that my friend is called teaching. If she/he has been on the T field a month probably bored out of his or her mind. So take a brake and do some marks so it becomes fun again.
    Clay
    What he said

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