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Thread: Steady to wing and Shot

  1. #1
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    Default Steady to wing and Shot

    How can I accomplished this with my flushing lab.

  2. #2
    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    This works....

    Steady Intro (link)

    plus this.

    Steady To Flush (link)
    Last edited by KwickLabs; 12-02-2013 at 02:20 PM.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
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    Administrator Chris Atkinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KwickLabs View Post
    I like the article that was posted here. I will comment, though, that I don't think it is necessary to send most retrievers in training (those with a drive to get the retrieve) as a "reward" for sitting on the flush. I think it is perfectly acceptable to create a standard for the dog that he is to be steady, watch the fall, and watch the boss pick it up.

    Why? Why create a "hair trigger" for something you want to engrain?

    You can pick up the bumper and throw it as a standard non-slip mark after, and let pup pick THAT up.

    My personal opinion is that there is nothing to be gained, in training, by letting the dog pickup the training bumper (or bird) after he's been steady on a flush. Run him on a mark in the same session, with the same object later. That is just as much of a reward as letting him pick up the object after sitting on the flush - but without the risk of breaking on the flush. (my opinion) Your mileage may vary.

    I think this "standard" would save many dogs and their handlers the agony of breaking on the flush in the Grand. I also think this standard will make for more rewarding hunts for those who want a dog to truly be steady on the flush. (In real hunting, you can release the dog to get the bird as soon as you like. You know he'll go get it.)

    Chris
    "Determining and applying the criteria for when and when not to use correction is the essence of the art of dog training. I make a distinction between a mistake and a lack of effort." - Mike Lardy - Volume I "After Collar Conditioning"

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    I was taught to... put dog on check cord. When the bird flushes, yank the check cord and hit the sit whistle (some people nick with Ecollar and hit the sit whistle). This worked for me and surprisingly very quickly. Knock on wood, she has been doing real well. I have yet for her to break. (have to admit I have not been doing this too long. maybe 1-2 months). Good luck

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    Senior Member KwickLabs's Avatar
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    Chris, I didn't get both links up quick enough. The two article sequence is important because together they deal with your concerns.
    Jim Boyer www.kwicklabs.com
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    Senior Member Erik Nilsson's Avatar
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    I preparation for our UKC upland test, We spent a month and half of no retrieves only sit to flush/shot. Started with bumpers, dead chuckars and then live flushed shot chuckers including allowed flyaways. Very similar to what Jim has prepared. The whole idea for me was to work on the sit and stay there until released. By doing so Im very happy with the outcome because now I have a very good steady to wing and shot dog. It was challenging at first because of the "normal" way of training was prepared however I found it interesting and learned a ton to train that way for the control, by changing the training to change the dog. I would admit that I felt weird for not letting him pick up anything like I was almost punishing the dog or at least not rewarding him with the retrieve, instead a "good dog" or walk over and simple pat I feel was enough to get the message across. Off the field on release a tossed bumper and we were done.

    BTW I trained him to sit to shot, not necessarly to whistle the whistle was the back up and it has carried over to our hunting
    HRC- Our season never ends

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    HR UH Nilsson's on a wing n a prayer SH WCX

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    With an attempt to add value to the discussion
    Is the OP question directed at tests or hunting as there may be different scenarios.
    For testing the UKC has an upland test however we have not done UKC work so i cannot comment. However the CKC ht program has a series in the Senior and Master for upland. We have titled several dogs to MH, GMHR and NMH so we train to quarter and sit to flush/shot. Some of the CKC folks hopefully will comment.

    We think the sit to flush is easy to teach. On the flush in the beginning blow your whistle and yell sit. It may take a few times but they learn because they have been trained to sit on a whistle. After they sit , walk to them and in the beginning slip your lead on and turn away with a heel. Soon you will just be able to leave the fall
    They understand it is not their bird, now saying that maybe once in 100 times let them retrieve the fall.

    In the AKC ht many times our crew will sit on a diversion shot and we have had judges say " they popped" , how do you pop on the return but this has happened more than once Once you explain steady to shot the issue goes away but it is a bi - product of cross training

    Hope this adds value and helps
    Dk

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    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked on Quack View Post
    I was taught to... put dog on check cord. When the bird flushes, yank the check cord and hit the sit whistle (some people nick with Ecollar and hit the sit whistle). This worked for me and surprisingly very quickly. Knock on wood, she has been doing real well. I have yet for her to break. (have to admit I have not been doing this too long. maybe 1-2 months). Good luck
    I'd stay away from using the e-collar for the sit to flush.. This can and will cause a dog to start binking birds and make the dog will lose he's bold flush and may even start pointing or sitting birds, use the check cord. And for the first few weeks don't let the dog make the retrieve, you'll need to walk out and pick up the birds yourself. After that I'd only let the dog make about 50 percent of the retrieves for a while. If you let the dog make the retrieves the dog will sit to flush but will break on the fall. It also help to steady the dog to shot before intro to birds.
    Steps
    1) Walk dog at heel and shoot the starter pistol, blow sit whistle. Do this the same as formal OB. Soon the dog will start sitting to the shot before you blow the whistle. Now the dog is becoming steady yo shot. This will take about a week or two depanding the dog.
    2) While on a cord take the dog into a field and let the work the field with no birds. Shoot the starter pistol and blow the whistle so the dog learns to sit on the shot while he is away from you. This is how we start to teach spaniels to run in braces.
    3) Hide a bumper in your hunting vest or coat. While on a check cord take the dog into a field and let him work the field with no birds. Now shoot the starter pistol blow your whistle and throw a bumper out of your hunting vest try to throw the bumper in a direction that places you between the bumper and the dog. So if the dog breaks you are able to stop him from getting the retrieve. Make sure the dog see's the bumper fall, Now you walk over and pick up the bumper.
    4) Plant 1 upland bird in the field work the dog on the check cord into the wind up to the planted bird. As the dog makes game grab the check cord. Bird flushes blow sit whistle fire starter pistol. Let the dog watch the bird fly off. After the bird is out of site call the dog back and start hunting again on your way out of the field. This will take several times before the dog will become steady enough to shoot over.
    5) Plant 1 upland bird in the field work the dog on the check cord into the wind to the planted bird Same as you've been doing in step2. As the dog makes game prepare to stop the dog with a sit whistle(Put the whistle in your mouth). Once the bird begins to flush blow the sit whistle look to ensure the dog is sitting. Then shoot the bird. After the bird is down ensure the dog is sitting and walk out and pick up the shot bird. Your dog is now steady to wing & shot.
    Cold Creek Gundogs
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