The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 5 of 17 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 164

Thread: To Much Drive?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Castalia Ohio
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What Michael said about training a high drive dog is NOT a blanket statement. He also mentioned that not giving the dog the ball because of a mistake made the dog more conducive to training, as if the dog was saying "what can I do to get the ball" show me show me show me. That dog is referred to as having high pack drive.
    What do you think a dog with high prey drive --low pack drive -- hard as nails with the attitude of "I will go through you to get what I want and you don't own enough collars to shut me down",,,as a matter of fact beating me raises my defensive drive and that feels good too.
    .
    That's called the non-trainable dog. Not all dogs are trainable. Sorry to be the person that had to tell you that.
    And this type of dog is the reason why we buy pups from titled parents. Master Hunter, Hunter Retriever Champion, FC, AFC parents. Hedging the bet that we'll get a pup with trainability and good marking skills same as thier parents had.
    Cold Creek Gundogs
    The more I'm on the internet the more I love my dogs.

  2. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    127

    Default

    The sum of this whole discussion is this......you buy the pup with the breeding you prefer. This is why the few win trials after trials, each and every year while the many argue about high drive dogs too much. Ever wonder why some owners pass tests at a very high success rate while other pass very few. Yes, they may both have a Master Hunter dog but one dog does it in six entries while the other dog does it in 50 entries over three years. They are both MH dogs. IMHO you must train smart, train hard, train often, with the breeding that can handle it and the desire that always wants more. I call it attitude. The dog that after you have just run a long water triple with a 300 yard blind runs to the truck and the first thing she does is find a bumper somewhere you thought was put away and grabs it then comes to heel wanting more! I can train this type of dog and enjoy it.......plus ahhhhhh.....they are so much fun to watch go. This type of dog is why I am addicted to this gamehunting ND 007.jpghunting ND 012.jpg.

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


    Backwater's Ole' Crow Medicine Show SH "Raven" BLF 7/26/11 (NFC FC AFC Hunter's Run Boo Boo x AFC Beat The Rush)
    Backwater's Gun Powder 'N' Lead "Trigger" BLF 6/30/12 ( FC AFC CJ's Mister T x FC Queen Winhelmina of the Netherlands)
    Backwater's Biker Trash "Scooter" BLM 9/6/2013 (FC AFC Nick of Time Lone Ranger x Good Ideas Windy Retreezer QAA)

  3. #43
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    2,792

    Default

    [QUOTEThat's called the non-trainable dog. Not all dogs are trainable. Sorry to be the person that had to tell you that.
    And this type of dog is the reason why we buy pups from titled parents. Master Hunter, Hunter Retriever Champion, FC, AFC parents. Hedging the bet that we'll get a pup with trainability and good marking skills same as thier parents had.][/QUOTE]

    Actually you are incorrect. Almost all dogs are trainable to a degree.( those with dementia may not be ) All dogs have a degree or level in which they can be trained. I hate to be the one to tell you that.

    Dogs like this often come from good blood lines. Thus the high drive factor. Someday people will learn its the whole dog that they are training not one aspect of it. genetics are a funny thing.
    Pete
    Last edited by Pete; 11-20-2013 at 08:47 AM.
    John 5 :30
    I can of my own self do nothing ,as I hear , I judge,,and my judgement is just, because I seek not my own will,,but the will of the father which hath sent me
    John 7:16 -- Jesus answered them and said my doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
    mark 16:9 -- So then after the lord had spoken unto them,he was received up in heaven, and sat on the right hand of God
    I Tim. 2:5 --For there is one God and one mediator between God and man ,, the man Christ Jesus

  4. #44
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Castalia Ohio
    Posts
    275

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    [QUOTEThat's called the non-trainable dog. Not all dogs are trainable. Sorry to be the person that had to tell you that.
    And this type of dog is the reason why we buy pups from titled parents. Master Hunter, Hunter Retriever Champion, FC, AFC parents. Hedging the bet that we'll get a pup with trainability and good marking skills same as thier parents had.]
    Actually you are incorrect. Almost all dogs are trainable to a degree.( those with dementia may not be ) All dogs have a degree or level in which they can be trained. I hate to be the one to tell you that.

    Dogs like this often come from good blood lines. Thus the high drive factor. Someday people will learn its the whole dog that they are training not one aspect of it. genetics are a funny thing.
    Pete[/QUOTE]

    I agree with part of what you are saying. Your statement almost all dogs are trainable, to some degree I believe any dog can be a junior dog. But the end goal on my truck is to make the dogs Master Hunters at a minimum FC if the dog has the talent and ability. Because if I'm going to put the time and effort into it, I want to be at the highest levels. Or it's a waste of my time and the dogs time. But I won't beat up a dog or be unfair to a less talented dog. Just for myself satisfaction. So the high drive low pack level, burn up the collar, fail to follow commands because he wants the bird so badly. This dog that you spoke of is un-trainable to get to the high levels of HT’s or FT’s.

    I also agree to takes more than high drive and that’s more to having a top level dog.
    Cold Creek Gundogs
    The more I'm on the internet the more I love my dogs.

  5. #45
    Senior Member HarryWilliams's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    1,221

    Default

    I would NOT be so quick to discount the input from "GG" & "Pete" as their level of experience and expertise most likely exceeds or far exceeds the decenters. Just a passing observation. Harry
    "Sometimes we just gotta do what is right". Jerry 2006

    See ya in the field. HPW

  6. #46
    Senior Member Julie R.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Orlean VA
    Posts
    2,851

    Default

    Not saying this is the case with the OP since I don't know him or the dog, but usually the ones I hear describe their dogs as having "too much drive" should substitute that for "not enough obedience". Because, let's face it, at training sessions when you hear people bragging about how their wild, barking, out of control dogs have so much drive, how many times do you ever hear them lament those same dogs do not have enough obedience training?
    Julie R., Hope Springs Farm
    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers since 1981

  7. #47
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,919

    Default

    And the answer is....There are definitely dogs with too much Drive (for me, for most people). Sure you can put a governor on a race-car and get it to slow down; but it is still a race car, with all that fire and speed locked up under the hood; requiring constant care and maintenance to prevent the wheels from falling off, and the car going up in a blaze. It takes a certain type of driver to be able to drive and appreciate a race-car everyday. I have trained with and driven 3 race-cars, 2 that were controllable; but you better watch those turns, 1 top of the line, that you better keep your eye on every second or you'd crash. Long & Short of it is; for me, I have no desire to own a Professional race-car; they require too much effort to maintain and drive; so I'll stick with and appreciate a Mustang, GTO, RoadRunner etc. They are still hot-rods but much easier maintenance, reliability and control
    Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 11-20-2013 at 10:33 AM.
    "They's Just DAWGS"
    "Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
    "I train dogs, Not papers"

    GMRH HRCH Quick MH (most importantly Duck/Upland Enthusiast)
    MHR HRCH Lakota MH (most importantly Upland/Duck Enthusiast)
    SHR Storm.. the Pup (Beginning Upland & Waterfowl Enthusiast)

  8. #48
    Senior Member brian breuer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Minot, ND
    Posts
    482

    Default

    Everything is relative. I've certainly seen dogs with too much and too little drive for my tastes. I believe most people here would tend to prefer the higher end of the scale. However, a dog in the 90th percentile of drive is probably more enjoyable than one in the 99th percentile. Most of us don't have the skill or the will to handle the 99 percentile dog.

    When discussion of high drive dogs comes up I always remember one trial I got to watch. The one instance that is burned in my brain is a dog taking a solid minute of creeping, reheeling and finally breaking on a land blind in the Open. How it made it through the marks I have no idea.

  9. #49
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,219

    Default

    I would bet a large sum of money that, even though that dog had obviously been trained to a high level to get to the Open, at the bottom of all that was a miscommunication about whose birds those really were, or the same problem I have allowed and that I am now having to painstakingly remediate.

    I have also heard it said that there are three kinds of retrievers: those that have broken, those that are about to break, and those that you should get rid of. I think (within reason) there is a lot of truth in that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian breuer View Post
    Everything is relative. I've certainly seen dogs with too much and too little drive for my tastes. I believe most people here would tend to prefer the higher end of the scale. However, a dog in the 90th percentile of drive is probably more enjoyable than one in the 99th percentile. Most of us don't have the skill or the will to handle the 99 percentile dog.

    When discussion of high drive dogs comes up I always remember one trial I got to watch. The one instance that is burned in my brain is a dog taking a solid minute of creeping, reheeling and finally breaking on a land blind in the Open. How it made it through the marks I have no idea.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  10. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    278

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    What Michael said about training a high drive dog is NOT a blanket statement. He also mentioned that not giving the dog the ball because of a mistake made the dog more conducive to training, as if the dog was saying "what can I do to get the ball" show me show me show me. That dog is referred to as having high pack drive.
    What do you think a dog with high prey drive --low pack drive -- hard as nails with the attitude of "I will go through you to get what I want and you don't own enough collars to shut me down",,,as a matter of fact beating me raises my defensive drive and that feels good too.
    High drive is only a portion of what we are looking for ,,,trainability and many other attributes is what makes training easier and more pleasurable.
    Very good explanation of the other attributes we're looking for. Thanks Pete.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •