The RetrieverTraining.Net Forums The Retriever Academy
Total Retriever Training with Mike Lardy
Hawkeye Media Gunners Up Tritronics Outdoor Media
Page 9 of 17 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 164

Thread: To Much Drive?

  1. #81
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    I did but I deleted it because it involved friends dogs and I dont do that to friends,maybe tell you the story in person now that I know you live in Idaho
    Sounds fair and I can understand. I have a smart phone so give me a shout on a PM and I will give ya my number or vice versa....

  2. #82
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Acampo, Ca.
    Posts
    612

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BJGatley View Post
    So there lies the problem....Is high drive subjective to the retriever world? You can harness the drive to your advantage if you know what to do. On the other hand, it can impede your progress, if you don't know what to do.... Is it best to seek those you know what to do? Would it be fair in your best interest to....

    Edit to post: What is the end result or goal of the future handler....Hopefully said handier will stay with dog and be patient and do whatever it takes to have dog excel or maybe need help for that as well. End result is....a journey together....
    I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say, but if you are saying it's all about the journey and to stick with what you have no matter what. doesn't that depend on what your goal really is? Some times, it better to put the dog on the couch and start again.

    Keith

  3. #83
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say, but if you are saying it's all about the journey and to stick with what you have no matter what. doesn't that depend on what your goal really is? Some times, it better to put the dog on the couch and start again.

    Keith
    You are reading too much in what I said. Think about the trainer to be...

  4. #84
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    1,069

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BonMallari View Post
    BJ check your PM box
    Will do...I have homework tonight...Photoshop tonight to caught up. Will call tomorrow...I promise.

    Benny who thought college was easy to get into again...Not at my age.....

  5. #85
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    3,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNorman View Post
    Generally, in my experience, when you see someone crowing about their dog being a firebreather, it usually means a newbie who's impressed by their dog's desire w/o a clue how the rein them in.

    Line work is critical. Doesn't matter what venue you're running.
    So Very true

  6. #86
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    hudsonville mi.
    Posts
    880

    Default

    So where is the OP ?
    I am still wondering how old is the dog and what exactly is the problem?
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  7. #87
    Senior Member TIM DOANE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    hudsonville mi.
    Posts
    880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    "I have also heard it said that there are three kinds of retrievers: those that have broken, those that are about to break, and those that you should get rid of. I think (within reason) there is a lot of truth in that statement.:

    Rookie trainer could not have stated it better. to each their own, I will never ever be competitive in the Grand nor do I want a dog that could. The line manners required and needed would mean I would need another color dog other than black bred line of NFC dogs I currently own, or a breeding from a country across the pond. That's OK, because have no desire to run this, everyone feeds what they like.
    So you are a professional dog trainer ( "far from an amateur ") and you could never get a well bred, black dog through the Grand?
    Tim Doane , Kingseed Kennels
    GRHRCH UH Hunters Marsh King Elijah MNH QAA "Ely"
    GRHRCH Kingseeds Little Miss Dangerous MNH QAA " Stella "
    HRCH Kingseeds Queen Of Grace MH " Hannah "
    Kingseeds She's A Classic " Layla "
    www.kingseedkennels.com

  8. #88
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    West Central AL
    Posts
    1,237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNorman View Post
    Generally, in my experience, when you see someone crowing about their dog being a firebreather, it usually means a newbie who's impressed by their dog's desire w/o a clue how the rein them in.

    Line work is critical. Doesn't matter what venue you're running.
    Very true, but only in hindsight. Let me explain.

    First, having never trained a retriever or even picked out a puppy, the new trainer is worried about one thing - is my dog birdy enough to retrieve? When you find out he is, and maybe even that he really likes it, it is such a relief that you just let some things go that you shouldn't. This is the new trainer's only dog, so even if the trainer takes advice and doesn't throw very many marks, I doubt they have the foresight not to let the pup pick up all the marks. I didn't.

    On the flip side, once you discover your dog is birdy enough (and then some), you probably begin to hear/learn that it is possible to make mistakes with some dogs (whether with the collar or physical corrections) that alter them forever. The old (and mostly true) "I can take it out but I can't put it (back) in." Now the new trainer is on notice that you can "ruin your dog" but has no idea really how to read a dog to decide that it has a lot of drive and a lot of bottom such that short of repeated random beatings with a 1 inch dowel you are not going to ruin the dog. And hopefully nobody is going to be doing that anyway.

    So, what you end up with, at least in my case, is a fairly talented dog with GREAT momentum, but one that I have allowed to think that all birds are his. This is manageable at the line, probably because he has figured out that if he keeps it together there he will get the birds, but it all blows up in the honor situation.

    Luckily I have some good training partners, most notably fishduck, who can read dogs and who figured out the problem was about 1% the dog and about 99% me. He put us on a training regimen to start to change the mindset by using the dog's birdiness against him. If he wants the bird we have to be steady for extended periods, and sometimes we don't get the bird even if we are steady. We are consistently using a mat to define steady. Any movement from flinching on up is cause for an immediate correction and the denial of the retrieve.

    After a solid week, we had a training day today, and he was much, much better on both marks and honors. We are still in the early stages of this reprogramming, and I was using the collar and a visible heeling stick today, but for the first time IN HIS ENTIRE LIFE he was completely still as two marks went down. We are still creating a habit, and we have a long way to go, but I can see progress being made. We will eventually remove the collar, and the heeling stick, and we will add ducks, duck calls, shots, and other distractions and eventually have a nice dog to hunt with and play the dog games with.

    I wish I would have done this much earlier, but at least I finally got the advice I needed. I guess it is true that when the student is ready (and has lost the entry fee for two tests because the dog breaks on honor) the teacher will appear. Thanks fishduck!!!
    Last edited by RookieTrainer; 11-23-2013 at 11:00 PM.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  9. #89
    Senior Member Sharon Potter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin Rapids, WI
    Posts
    2,797

    Default

    To me, "Too much drive" generally translates to "Not enough human to handle it".

    And what Pete said.
    Sharon Potter

    www.redbranchkennels.net

    Chesapeake Bay Retrievers...too many to list.

    Team Huntsmith

  10. #90
    Member T-bone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Posts
    37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KNorman View Post
    Generally, in my experience, when you see someone crowing about their dog being a firebreather, it usually means a newbie who's impressed by their dog's desire w/o a clue how the rein them in.

    Line work is critical. Doesn't matter what venue you're running.
    I suppose you'd consider me a newbie and therefore think I'm crowing about our firebreather. He is a firebreather but he's also under control (most of the time). This may sound like crowing also but he's very well bred and excels at what they aimed for with that litter. Our problem is that he's under control at the line but goes like a bat out of hell in the field with no regard to anything in his path. That issue is a hard one to manage no matter who you are or what your skill level may be.
    Behind every success is effort. Behind every effort is passion. Behind every passion is someone with the courage to try!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •