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To Much Drive?

30K views 163 replies 54 participants last post by  Dan Storts 
#1 ·
When or can a dog have to much drive? Can to much drive be corrected through proper obedience training? Any suggestions would be apprecieated.
 
#2 · (Edited)
Yes it can be controlled. You have to be firm and consistent.
I recently had a dog like that. For the first time I used a pinch collar instead of a choke chain. I highly recommend you do this.
It drastically improved his ob and made steadying him so much easier. I think I posted a video on this.
 
#3 ·
To much drive is usually another way of saying dog can't focus it gets so excited.
 
#7 ·
So what you are saying, as an amateur, you are better able to handle a dog with minimal to little drive? I certainly cannot, nor will not tolerate a dog with minimal drive. How do you "train" that drive into them? I can't put into a dog what was not put there by breeding. To me, and is my preference, the very high drive dog. It is so much easier for me, as was with with my Raven dog, to have a dog "break" and shake during FTP work. I never, ever had a go problem with her ever. Line manners is another story! but I can and have fixed that easily. Training the dog that would rather retrieve than anything else in life is not only a pleasure but easier, not to mention much more rewarding to watch work. The dog that kicks dirt in my face leaving the line for a blind after picking up a triple is my kind of dog. This isn't for everyone and that's why people buy dogs other than field trial labs! Too much horsepower for some.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Well said Mike. I can't think of the word but, maybe it's craziness, or maybe wildness. Maybe "undirected drive." It's often misconstrued as high drive.
 
#8 ·
Well said Mike. I can't think of the word but, maybe it's craziness, or maybe wildness. Maybe "undirected drive." It's often misconstrued as high drive.


There is a difference between a dog that is high drive and teachable compared to one that is not...Steve S
 
#11 ·
its only too much if the perceived drive exceeds the capabilities of the people or persons trying to harness and channel that drive into some workable form of an animal using conventional humane methods...urban dictionary describes such a dog as bat schiat crazy :rolleyes:
 
#12 ·
I have one now I got in a few weeks ago. Yelps in the water because her legs won't swim as fast as her brain wants her to get there. Yelps on land on the take off...and I mean take like a rocket. However she is smart and learns quickly. Working on OB I the yard now and FF soon. Fun to train for me. I have another young one of my own I'm looking forward to FF. If I have a bumper in my hand it better be high enough she can't reach it or she's gonna get it. I had one just like her a few yrs ago and had to hide the bumper behind my back just to get an ear pinch on her.
 
#16 ·
To much drive hmmmm. If you start a puppy off right letting it know u have control from the first time u send it from a heel position and not letting it break if it does break and your using a 30 foot check cord he will learn not to break he will also learn that daddy has control over me and I don't get my reward if I don't obey. If you build on that and never let him get his way I believe u can control the drive
 
#17 ·
Ahhh... getting to the crotch of the matter (as Archie Bunker would say.) We're touching on the true fear and loathing of the amateur. Serious amateurs (people who love the dog game but have lives and responsibilities) recognize the necessity of buying a dog/puppy bred to have "go" but worry about instilling the right amount of "no". "No" in the right amount at the right time.

Since I am one of those amateurs I would like to ask the assembled experts if using the Hillman techniques with the very young fire-breather can produce the dog we want. I seriously don't want to screw my anticipated puppy up.
 
#18 ·
Ahhh... getting to the crotch of the matter (as Archie Bunker would say.) We're touching on the true fear and loathing of the amateur. Serious amateurs (people who love the dog game but have lives and responsibilities) recognize the necessity of buying a dog/puppy bred to have "go" but worry about instilling the right amount of "no". "No" in the right amount at the right time.

Since I am one of those amateurs I would like to ask the assembled experts if using the Hillman techniques with the very young fire-breather can produce the dog we want. I seriously don't want to screw my anticipated puppy up.
I took mine through it and it went well. It made formal training much easier because he was familiar with much of the training already.
 
#19 · (Edited)
There is a lot more to a dog than prey drive. Temperament is comprised of all the drives and the dogs sensitivities to its environment. No 2 dogs are alike.
Focus and excitability are factors. High pack ,low pack factor in. High food low food factor in. And high prey low prey factor in and the sustainability of these drives during the process of goal satisfaction also factor in.

Give me high pack,,,high food and high prey and sustainabilities of those drives along with high focus and low excitability and sensitive any day any time.
High drive alone does not factor in because it is only a very small part of the equation. You need more info.

Pete
 
#20 ·
There is a lot more to a dog than prey drive. Temperament is comprised of all the drives and the dogs sensitivities to its environment. No 2 dogs are alike.
Focus and excitability are factors. High pack ,low pack factor in. High food low food factor in. And high prey low prey factor in and the sustainability of these drives during the process of goal satisfaction also factor in.

Give me high pack,,,high food and high prey and sustainabilities of those drives along with high focus and low excitability and sensitive any day any time.
High drive alone does not factor in because it is only a very small part of the equation. You need more info.

Pete
I believe this is a big factor in determining if the dog is trainable ( teachable) ...The excitability is where the problem usually arises...the higher the dog gets the harder it is for some to calm the dog down...Some trainers have the knack of taking this out of the dog and others don't have it...Steve S
 
#22 ·
I am dealing with a high drive dog right now that has broken on honor in our first two attempts at Senior passes - after doing the best work in both as told to me by both sets of judges. Right after they told me "I'm sorry." At least they were polite.

My dog's problem is not his high drive; it is his idiot first-time handler/trainer. I only have one dog, and I (very foolishly, as it turns out) let him pick up way too many marks, leading him to conclude at this stage that he is supposed to retrieve everything that falls. He can hold it together at the line - because he assumes he is going to be allowed to go get the birds. It does not hold together like that on honor, when I tell him "no bird" and he thinks another dog is going to get "his" bird.

That last part is the real problem: they are supposed to be MY birds that I may or may not allow him to retrieve. I really wish I would have understood it this way several months ago. We are looking at some long therapy, but the early returns are good. As a rank amateur currently dealing with this problem, here are some things I wish I would have done differently.

1. Once you figure out your dog likes to chase stuff, you can be assured they have enough desire to do some work. From that point on with a truly high-drive dog you are working to get them to utilize that desire within in the framework of our rules.

2. Your rules need to be very strict and very consistent with any dog, but even more so with a high-drive dog. When somebody tells you to keep your OB standard high because you'll only get a percentage of that at a hunt or dog event, they mean it. And they mean 20%, not 90%. Embrace it.

3. When you think your rules are strict enough with a high-drive dog, tighten them up (within reason and in balance, of course). You should know that a "little flinch" forward in training that you think is so cool because it shows you that dog wants the bird will be a 3-foot creep on the line at a hunt test. Or possibly a break on an honor after smoking the test. Possibly twice. No movement at all (other than the head following your foot around as you have trained them) is best. Don't let them have an inch that they can use to take a mile.

4. Use their birdiness against them. If they are truly high-drive, and have the bottom to go with it, they can take a lot of physical pressure (collar and otherwise) AS LONG AS THEY END UP GETTING THE BIRD. The bird is everything to this dog, so the punishment for movement or acting crazy on the line (training or otherwise) is YOU WALKING OUT THERE AND PICKING UP THE BIRD. DO THIS EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY FAIL TO PLAY BY THE RULES IN ANY WAY.

5. You'll get a lot of advice that you really need to "tear that dog up" or "show that dog who the boss is." If you let it go as long as I have there will probably have to be at least a couple come to Jesus meetings to break up the expectations and get the dog to at least think about what is going on. But I think the beating method for this dog is not the long-term answer. Physics being what it is, pressure applied has to come out somewhere, and God forbid you really make this dog nervous around you. He doesn't need another excuse to get up and move.

6. The better answer is going to be picking up the birds when the dog does not play by the rules - and sometimes when the dog plays by the rules. Remember, this dog above all needs to decide that the birds are yours, and the result of attempting to make them his is - you guessed it - denial of the bird.

7. As a very wise dog person told me today, if the high-drive dog is not managed this way, then he ends up like a 14-year-old boy when a pretty girl walks into the room. He wants to just run over to her and, well, you know, but he has to learn that doing it that way will destroy any chance he may have of getting what he wants. Actually he said "your dog is like a 14-year-old boy", but I digress.

I have to learn everything the hard way, apparently, so we are in for 3-6 months of rehab on this issue. And then we will manage it for the rest of his life.

Onward and upward, as they say. This dog is teaching me a lot about dog training, among other things.
 
#23 ·
So right now, as I said, I'm a student of Hillman's stuff. He is a big advocate of the balanced dog. He has a drill called Traffic Cop that makes a lot of sense. But what he said that made the light turn on for me is that the dog is released when his attention is riveted on the handler not the duck (or bumper). Though the DVD is intended for the owners of puppies, he says that it can be used to rehabilitate an adult dog. Takes about a LOT more to fix the problem, but the drill is supposed to be very helpful for adult dogs who aren't rock solid. I like it because it is simplicity itself. Haven't tried it yet so I shouldn't endorse it. But you watch day to day as he works a young dog on it. No fuss. No high-tech stuff. Not a lot of set-ups and simulations. It's not about the retrieve, it's about the dog's focus and directing it onto the handler.
 
#24 ·
I have not seen the Hillman stuff yet, but I have heard lots of good things about it. You can bet I will be purchasing a copy before I take on another pup. And my next pup will of course be completely different and all my hard-won "knowledge" will be out the window.

Headed outside to work on reeducation.
 
#25 ·
Too much? Nah,no such thing! :rolleyes:;) Seriously, I believe the Hillman system would have made a huge difference in my older dog, IF, and this is an important IF, I had had the experience and skills to carry it out properly and understand the basic philosophy. The program will not help you if are a beginner alone. You need a watchful eye over your shoulder. Having said that, I have raised my young dog with Hillman's and could not ask for better results. But as Steve said above, he is a completely different type of dog and might have been just fine without. But I believe it is the best chance you have with a wild one.
 
#26 ·
As this is a "Christmas puppy", and we'll be limited due to winter conditions, the simplicity of Hillman's method (a handler, a dog, a bumper... for the most part) we need not waste a day before Spring rolls into summer and we can do transition on land and water.
 
#27 ·
it's doubtful that any amateur trainer can ever control a dog with true high-drive---most pros can't. The amount of discipline required to control that kind of dog is more than any trainer wants to administer--they're no fun to train. this is the kind of dog that draws a crown at a trial---they want to see how he will crash and burn today. Dogs with that kind of high drive come with a very low trainability level. which make them extremely difficult to train, even as a gun dog.
Good luck
GG
 
#28 ·
IMO there isn't such thing as to much prey drive, its the animal's ability to consistently balance what they love or want to do with a trained response. As most know all dogs mature at different ages and I believe that most people mistake "high driven or Hot" with either slow maturing or an animal that truly doesn't know how to properly respond to the situation at its been put in. Energy that dogs show at the line tell us what avenues a trainer might need to take so that this animal can maintain focus and control which will then lead to success. To much prey drive isn't why a dog is dancing, barking or breaking at the line. Most of the time its a result of yesterdays training.
 
#30 ·
Yes it can be controlled, I hunted with a cosmo daughter a few years ago and she was young and would whine in the blind, but the following year when i hunted with her the owner had taught her to be quiet. I personally love a high drive dog, but some dont and dont want to take the time with them so they say they have tooo much drive
 
#33 ·
Can somebody explain to me what a high drive dog is?????
I don't think that there is a dog with to much high drive. What I do think is that there's dogs that during training get short cutted. And when the dogs at the retrieving line it breaks or it whines the trainer or handler says O' he's a real high drive dog he just does that stuff. No you didn't train the dog to understand how the game was to be played. So the dog did what was natural and went and made the retrieve. The fault solely is on the trainer/handler.
That's why we always talk about having high standards at all times.
 
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