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Thread: To Much Drive?

  1. #31
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    LOL. So you think a dog can't have too much desire????

  2. #32
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    No, but I now certainly think they can have way yonder too much uncontrolled desire.
    Steve Wyatt

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  3. #33
    Senior Member Golden Boy's Avatar
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    Can somebody explain to me what a high drive dog is?????
    I don't think that there is a dog with to much high drive. What I do think is that there's dogs that during training get short cutted. And when the dogs at the retrieving line it breaks or it whines the trainer or handler says O' he's a real high drive dog he just does that stuff. No you didn't train the dog to understand how the game was to be played. So the dog did what was natural and went and made the retrieve. The fault solely is on the trainer/handler.
    That's why we always talk about having high standards at all times.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bwanar View Post
    Well...I have one of those Really High Drive dogs. The kind that never gets enough and would retrieve until he drops over dead. He just gets so excited at the line (hunt test) that he can't sit but a moment at a time, looses his hearing (to my commands) and would/has broken on blinds, once he thinks he has even the slightest idea where I am sending him. Once the birds are on the ground, he is all business and it's hard to believe he can mark so well with all that movement. He stays just inside loose acceptable limits to be failed in a finished test, however his marks and blinds are so good (picking up all his marks clean and lining half the blinds), that the judges just can't normally fail him. I have tried to get this cleaned up, but he is not that way in training, even at mock tests.
    I would sure like to know your method of easily fixing this, because I have tried a bunch. Granted he is still a young dog 22months and is getting better and better, but even know qualified for the Grand and fully capable (performance wise), he looseness at the line would have him out quick! Thanks in advance....there are a few others in our club with similar problems, but not to the same degree.
    FYI his healing, sitting and recall are at CDX levels normally.
    You answered your own question in your statment. Training!!!!!!!!!
    Your most likely running to many HT's too close together with your dog, 22 month old HRCH is a young dog but nice job. So he's become a little test wise there for making him loose.
    Cold Creek Gundogs
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GG View Post
    it's doubtful that any amateur trainer can ever control a dog with true high-drive---most pros can't. The amount of discipline required to control that kind of dog is more than any trainer wants to administer--they're no fun to train. this is the kind of dog that draws a crown at a trial---they want to see how he will crash and burn today. Dogs with that kind of high drive come with a very low trainability level. which make them extremely difficult to train, even as a gun dog.
    Good luck
    GG
    Sorry but that is simply not true. There are plenty of amateurs that can handle it and high drive has little to do with being trainable.
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by GG View Post
    it's doubtful that any amateur trainer can ever control a dog with true high-drive---most pros can't. The amount of discipline required to control that kind of dog is more than any trainer wants to administer--they're no fun to train. this is the kind of dog that draws a crown at a trial---they want to see how he will crash and burn today. Dogs with that kind of high drive come with a very low trainability level. which make them extremely difficult to train, even as a gun dog.
    Good luck
    GG
    You are more than welcome to come watch my dog go, train with, or hunt anytime. Totally disagree with you. I can't train a dog with low drive and a I am far from an amateur.

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  7. #37
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    Michael Ellis, the protection dog trainer, said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that really high drive dogs are easy to train because they want the reward (the bird, or the tug) so bad, they're willing to do almost anything to get it. He says the high drive dogs are easy to train with more positive methods because they are so singularly focused and highly motivated. He also said low drive dogs are easy, you give them away to a pet home and you're done. The medium drive dogs are the hard ones and require more force and correction. It makes sense but with that said, I do think there are dogs with so much drive they're hard to control or uncontrolable.

    Ellis explains it better than I do. I think it's around the 30 min mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0-oqqoXvw

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpate View Post
    Michael Ellis, the protection dog trainer, said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that really high drive dogs are easy to train because they want the reward (the bird, or the tug) so bad, they're willing to do almost anything to get it. He says the high drive dogs are easy to train with more positive methods because they are so singularly focused and highly motivated. He also said low drive dogs are easy, you give them away to a pet home and you're done. The medium drive dogs are the hard ones and require more force and correction. It makes sense but with that said, I do think there are dogs with so much drive they're hard to control or uncontrolable.

    Ellis explains it better than I do. I think it's around the 30 min mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0-oqqoXvw
    Well stated!

    "This ain't Burger King, you don't get it your way"


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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpate View Post
    Michael Ellis, the protection dog trainer, said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that really high drive dogs are easy to train because they want the reward (the bird, or the tug) so bad, they're willing to do almost anything to get it. He says the high drive dogs are easy to train with more positive methods because they are so singularly focused and highly motivated. He also said low drive dogs are easy, you give them away to a pet home and you're done. The medium drive dogs are the hard ones and require more force and correction. It makes sense but with that said, I do think there are dogs with so much drive they're hard to control or uncontrolable.

    Ellis explains it better than I do. I think it's around the 30 min mark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe0-oqqoXvw
    Really excellent video. I'm going to check out more of his stuff.

    And basically his reward/non-reward discussion explaining why the "nutty" dog is easiest to train fits with Hillman's notion that the dog has to be so focused on the handler because the handler is the source of the reward (retrieve). That's what you see on Traffic Cop. The difference between what I hear Ellis saying vrs Hillman, is that Hillman seems to suggest that you can balance out that medium-drive dog by keeping them very high with "free retrieves" (this is for very young dogs remember... basically puppies.) And I think Hillman has tried to use average field-bred puppies in the videos he produces. Not slugs, not fire-breathers.

  10. #40
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    And basically his reward/non-reward discussion explaining why the "nutty" dog is easiest to train fits with Hillman's notion that the dog has to be so focused on the handler because the handler is the source of the reward (retrieve). That's what you see on Traffic Cop. The difference between what I hear Ellis saying vrs Hillman, is that Hillman seems to suggest that you can balance out that medium-drive dog by keeping them very high with "free retrieves" (this is for very young dogs remember... basically puppies.) And I think Hillman has tried to use average field-bred puppies in the videos he produces. Not slugs, not fire-breathers.
    What Michael said about training a high drive dog is NOT a blanket statement. He also mentioned that not giving the dog the ball because of a mistake made the dog more conducive to training, as if the dog was saying "what can I do to get the ball" show me show me show me. That dog is referred to as having high pack drive.
    What do you think a dog with high prey drive --low pack drive -- hard as nails with the attitude of "I will go through you to get what I want and you don't own enough collars to shut me down",,,as a matter of fact beating me raises my defensive drive and that feels good too.
    High drive is only a portion of what we are looking for ,,,trainability and many other attributes is what makes training easier and more pleasurable.
    Last edited by Pete; 11-20-2013 at 07:46 AM.
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