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Thread: To Much Drive?

  1. #51
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    "I have also heard it said that there are three kinds of retrievers: those that have broken, those that are about to break, and those that you should get rid of. I think (within reason) there is a lot of truth in that statement.:

    Rookie trainer could not have stated it better. to each their own, I will never ever be competitive in the Grand nor do I want a dog that could. The line manners required and needed would mean I would need another color dog other than black bred line of NFC dogs I currently own, or a breeding from a country across the pond. That's OK, because have no desire to run this, everyone feeds what they like.

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  2. #52
    Senior Member roseberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GG View Post
    it's doubtful that any amateur trainer can ever control a dog with true high-drive---most pros can't.
    Good luck
    GG
    the "true high drive" dog gg is talking about is something most have never had an experience with.

    the dogs many of us call "fire breathers" are just nice dogs. when someone says, "i want the highest drive dog i can get." or, "there is not a dog too high in drive for me!" i see all the evidence i need to point and say to myself, "that person right there has never owned a "true high drive" dog!"

    i like a hot dog myself. but if you have ever said about your dog, "boy i love training this dog!" you do not have the dog gg is talking about!
    john mccallie

  3. #53
    Senior Member kjrice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post
    the "true high drive" dog gg is talking about is something most have never had an experience with.

    the dogs many of us call "fire breathers" are just nice dogs. when someone says, "i want the highest drive dog i can get." or, "there is not a dog too high in drive for me!" i see all the evidence i need to point and say to myself, "that person right there has never owned a "true high drive" dog!"

    i like a hot dog myself. but if you have ever said about your dog, "boy i love training this dog!" you do not have the dog gg is talking about!
    The part I thought painted with too broad of a brush was, "...it's doubtful that any amateur trainer can ever control a dog with true high-drive..." That is simply not true.

    Too many have no idea what they are getting in a breeding other than it is a popular Internet flavor or has some letters in front and/or behind it's name.
    Last edited by kjrice; 11-20-2013 at 04:26 PM.
    A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by roseberry View Post
    the "true high drive" dog gg is talking about is something most have never had an experience with.

    the dogs many of us call "fire breathers" are just nice dogs. when someone says, "i want the highest drive dog i can get." or, "there is not a dog too high in drive for me!" i see all the evidence i need to point and say to myself, "that person right there has never owned a "true high drive" dog!"

    i like a hot dog myself. but if you have ever said about your dog, "boy i love training this dog!" you do not have the dog gg is talking about!
    Amen Amen Amen Amen
    Carol,
    Owned and handled by Cruisin' with Indiana Jones, JH
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  5. #55
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    I agree with McCallie that there is such a thing as a dog with too much drive. One of my training partners had such a dog. He almost killed himself & the dog getting her through MH. She required multiple high level corrections to make a point & then would pout & simply go through the motions. The dog invented new & innovative ways to fail tests & was in general a PITA! Maybe she had train ability issues. I don't know. What I do know is I would have sold her much quicker than he did.

    In most cases when someone says "my dog has too much drive", what they mean is "my obedience program is crappy". The same group of people always have the same "high drive" dogs. I am embarrassed to be included in this category but I am getting better.
    Mark Land

  6. #56
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    Related story: Years ago a pro I liked (but who shall remain nameless) had a high-drive dog that no-matter-what would creep like crazy. So bad we began calling him "First and ten Earl". Then it got worse and we called him "All-American Earl" and then it got so bad we started calling him "All World Earl". So eventually someone suggested giving Earl some of his owner's valium. And then began the calculus of "OK, how much does Earl weigh?" "How much does Shirley weigh and how much does she take and how long does it take for her to zone out?" Ummm... Earl weighs about half of what Shirley does and she takes 5 mg an hour before she goes to bed. ('Course, Shirley also took her valium with two fingers of scotch.) OK, so we give Earl half a tablet about an hour before he's s'posed to run?" Well, depends, when did he eat last and what's his number and where are we in line up and how long does each dog take to run the test? How many rebirds before Earl runs?

    I don't think we ever did drug Earl (someone's common sense and conscience kicked in) and needless to say Earl never titled. But I still laugh at the recollection of a bunch of us trying to do canine pharmacokinetics at a field trial.

    Take home messages: 1. cheaters never win and 2. if the dog is that unsteady, probably should get another dog.

    I think Earl was out of Itchin' to Go.
    Last edited by 1tulip; 11-20-2013 at 05:18 PM.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    In most cases when someone says "my dog has too much drive", what they mean is "my obedience program is crappy". The same group of people always have the same "high drive" dogs. I am embarrassed to be included in this category but I am getting better.
    I have heard of dogs being washed out because they were so intense about retrieving, they could never be taught to do blinds with diversions and poison birds. So, I think it is possible to have a dog with too much drive, despite a good OB program.
    "For everyone to whom much is given, of him shall much be required." -- Luke 12:48

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  8. #58
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    When they sh&$ their box at the sound of shot fliers is usually a good indication they have too much prey drive...true story. "GG" post was right on....
    "Women are like labradors...,they all have their quarks."~Phil Robertson

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    In most cases when someone says "my dog has too much drive", what they mean is "my obedience program is crappy". The same group of people always have the same "high drive" dogs. I am embarrassed to be included in this category but I am getting better.
    Jimmy and I are depending on you so he won't be so high-drive anymore (or my OB program won't be as crappy)! Oh well, once burnt, lesson learnt according to Barney Fife.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

  10. #60
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    I personally believe there are many retriever trainers who get caught up fostering and encouraging drive in pups that already have it instead of working on obedience with a sound, incremental program (that lasts months not days.) Too many use the "whip 'em or burn 'em if they don't (heel, sit, come, etc.)" even if the pups haven't really been thoroughly taught these things to try to rush through the "boring" task of obedience. Obedience becomes an afterthought, a "when I have time for it" part of training. Drive often gets emphasized out of pride so strong drive becomes stronger drive becomes uncontrollable or unruly drive. Watching dogs run full speed and hammer marks is fun. It gives us those "Wow! Did you see my dog do that?" moments. Obedience, not so much.
    "When a good trainer stops learning about dogs, he stops being a good trainer." the late Gene Hill

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