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Thread: To Much Drive?

  1. #61
    Senior Member BJGatley's Avatar
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    Excellent thread. Enjoyed reading the posts.
    Nothing to add on my part.

  2. #62
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Walker View Post
    I personally believe there are many retriever trainers who get caught up fostering and encouraging drive in pups that already have it instead of working on obedience with a sound, incremental program (that lasts months not days.) Too many use the "whip 'em or burn 'em if they don't (heel, sit, come, etc.)" even if the pups haven't really been thoroughly taught these things to try to rush through the "boring" task of obedience. Obedience becomes an afterthought, a "when I have time for it" part of training. Drive often gets emphasized out of pride so strong drive becomes stronger drive becomes uncontrollable or unruly drive. Watching dogs run full speed and hammer marks is fun. It gives us those "Wow! Did you see my dog do that?" moments. Obedience, not so much.
    All this being true, I have seen them break a honor and run through a full collar on Constance with there head cranked. There only been two in my life time ( I know that it has not been as long as others) that where true fire breathers and both did not make it.

    If you truly have one you will know it and it's not that fun.

    Keith
    Last edited by truthseeker; 11-20-2013 at 11:18 PM. Reason: spelling

  3. #63
    Senior Member Purpledawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HarryWilliams View Post
    I would NOT be so quick to discount the input from "GG" & "Pete" as their level of experience and expertise most likely exceeds or far exceeds the decenters. Just a passing observation. Harry
    thank you Harry, again always the voice of good reason.

  4. #64
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    Good training + drive = nice dog.
    Bad training + drive = unbalanced /dangerous.

    Saying that a dog cant make the grade because they have to much drive is a horrible excuse. Put that dog with someone that can balance control and desire and see what happens. All dogs cant be trained the same, adjust for each if need be. Your better marking stylish dogs are going to have a lot of drive. Retrieves should be rewards, hard to train one that doesn't like the rewards.

  5. #65
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    One more to add:

    GREAT training + too much drive= washout
    there's no good reason to fatten up a retriever.

  6. #66
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
    I have heard of dogs being washed out because they were so intense about retrieving, they could never be taught to do blinds with diversions and poison birds. So, I think it is possible to have a dog with too much drive, despite a good OB program.
    Actually I completely agree. It may have been poorly written but that was the gist of the first non quoted paragraph. My point was more that some people use high drive as an excuse for lack of obedience. You will see this individual with 3 dogs from different breedings & all have the same line manner issues. Sure a very few dogs have too much drive. A high % of dogs labeled as such are simply a result of poor handling skills or incomplete training.
    Mark Land

  7. #67
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WBF View Post
    Good training + drive = nice dog.
    Bad training + drive = unbalanced /dangerous.

    Saying that a dog cant make the grade because they have to much drive is a horrible excuse. Put that dog with someone that can balance control and desire and see what happens. All dogs cant be trained the same, adjust for each if need be. Your better marking stylish dogs are going to have a lot of drive. Retrieves should be rewards, hard to train one that doesn't like the rewards.
    When I read something like this, just tells me they have not seen enough dogs yet . TIME WILL TELL.

    Keith

  8. #68
    Senior Member WBF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    When I read something like this, just tells me they have not seen enough dogs yet . TIME WILL TELL.

    Keith
    When I read this, it tells me they probably washout a lot of dogs that love to pickup birds too much.

  9. #69
    Senior Member mitty's Avatar
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    Default Noobs exposed!

    Several posters whose credentials I know and respect have chimed in on this thread. They all seem to be of similar mind.

    Then there are several posters who have commented, who I don't know, but who have expressed similar views to them. I will give their comments in other threads a lot more weight now.

    Peanuty regards,
    Last edited by mitty; 11-21-2013 at 04:09 PM.
    Renee P

  10. #70
    Senior Member RookieTrainer's Avatar
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    You may be taking it a little further than I intended. While ideally I would like to run my dog like a race car - right on the edge of out-of-control - you do want to stay out of the wall the vast majority of the time. In my situation, I pretty well know at this point that the wall is in our future when we start a hunt test, so we are going back to the design shop to hopefully get him to decide to maintain himself on the right side of the control equation.

    Ironically, the program I am on is basically using his intense desire for birds against him. To get what he wants, he has to give me what I want first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backwater View Post
    "I have also heard it said that there are three kinds of retrievers: those that have broken, those that are about to break, and those that you should get rid of. I think (within reason) there is a lot of truth in that statement.:

    Rookie trainer could not have stated it better. to each their own, I will never ever be competitive in the Grand nor do I want a dog that could. The line manners required and needed would mean I would need another color dog other than black bred line of NFC dogs I currently own, or a breeding from a country across the pond. That's OK, because have no desire to run this, everyone feeds what they like.
    Steve Wyatt

    HR Belle's Rolling Big Rig "Jimmy"

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