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Thread: Dog will no retreive in cold water?

  1. #51
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    I guess everyone reads what they want and I can't make them see other wise.

    I think taking this any further is not going to help anyone.

    Keith

  2. #52
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sageandtun View Post
    I have a 15 month old lab that has been hunting all season and has been doing great. today we hunted a large, half frozen pond with ice around the edges and he just flat out would not retrieve the ducks. He really did not want to get in the water. This is not lack of drive or training so, with all due respect, those are not the answers that I am looking for. !
    This would tell me that hands on, experienced time with a competent trainer or training group would have 'avoided' this perceived 'non training' or 'non-desire' issue which I believe was the basis of Marks post rather than forums solving problems that shouldn't exist in the first place.

    I could be wrong though.
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNTFSH View Post
    This would tell me that hands on, experienced time with a competent trainer or training group would have 'avoided' this perceived 'non training' or 'non-desire' issue which I believe was the basis of Marks post rather than forums solving problems that shouldn't exist in the first place.

    I could be wrong though.
    You're not

  4. #54
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNTFSH View Post
    This would tell me that hands on, experienced time with a competent trainer or training group would have 'avoided' this perceived 'non training' or 'non-desire' issue which I believe was the basis of Marks post rather than forums solving problems that shouldn't exist in the first place.

    I could be wrong though.
    It's good of you to come to the defense of your friend, but again it's not the advise that I had a problem with. It's the fact that he cherry picked something out of the middle of my answer and took it completely out of context and that not right.

    That's just being a jerk.

    Keith

  5. #55
    Senior Member HNTFSH's Avatar
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    More so outlining that the OP (no offense to him) might be naive about the issue and reinforces that by stating it couldn't possibly be a desire or training issue and further more wants to hear nothing of it. I mean c'mon...if not one of those two things the alternative is someone taught the dog (at worst) that cold water is bad, right? At best didn't cover the confidence factor in water well enough ahead.

    In terms of suggestions yours both included force if met by resistance. Summer or winter. Water force could help...but personally I'd figure it out before force because after all the dog does everything else 'great', right?

    I'd guess the OP missed some stuff and frankly would rather start there but folks can only do that effectively live and in person where they can see what they see versus read what they're told. Which is what I supported in MJH345's response.
    We shoot dogs with a Canon

  6. #56
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HNTFSH View Post
    More so outlining that the OP (no offense to him) might be naive about the issue and reinforces that by stating it couldn't possibly be a desire or training issue and further more wants to hear nothing of it. I mean c'mon...if not one of those two things the alternative is someone taught the dog (at worst) that cold water is bad, right? At best didn't cover the confidence factor in water well enough ahead.

    In terms of suggestions yours both included force if met by resistance. Summer or winter. Water force could help...but personally I'd figure it out before force because after all the dog does everything else 'great', right?

    I'd guess the OP missed some stuff and frankly would rather start there but folks can only do that effectively live and in person where they can see what they see versus read what they're told. Which is what I supported in MJH345's response.
    I agree with you. Based on his dog's apparent birdyness and drive to retrieve up to that point, the OP extrapolated those traits to water and didn't want to hear anything contrary. I haven't read all the post since I posted a reply early on, so don't know if he's returned to the thread with any additional information, but it seems like many are posting advise he didn't want to hear. My point was that it could be a number of things including a lack of heart in the dog, but with winter coming on hard, now wasn't the time to force the dog into cold water. Now if we knew the dog had advanced through a proper training program including FF, FTP and water force, we would know the tools were built in and we could deal with it accordingly, but I didn't get that impression. Hence my advise to skip duck hunting this season and deal with it in a proper manner over Spring, and Summer.

    Keith's idea of running some simple retrieves across shallow, running water isn't a bad one, but again I would leave the force out of it unless and until we know for sure the dog understands force and how to handle it.

  7. #57
    Senior Member huntinman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by truthseeker View Post
    First you only put half my answer and just rude. I see no problem throwing a few for the dog in sallow water to see if it was just the situation that was the problem. That's all it might be.

    If everyone gave your advise, no one would learn anything on this forum.

    Keith
    Keith, I see you met Healy. A real peach, huh?
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  8. #58
    Senior Member fishduck's Avatar
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    Been busy! No time for Internet banter.

    Actually ran into something similar this weekend. Knocked down a couple of ducks out of the back of the pit. 22 month old Lab did not see the fall. Ran the blind down the levee. Dog did not want to take the angle entry into water. Two cast refusals. Stopped & nick. Dog cast into the water & brought back the duck. Without a complete water force program, I would have been throwing rocks or the dog or retrieving ducks myself.

    I really don't think my dog has a heart & guts the size of an acorn. Hunted all morning in 20 mph wind, temp high 30's without 1 whimper. She flushed up a cripple off the levee the same day. Chased the flying duck 175 yards. Stuck with it as it dove for at least 2 minutes. Finally corralled it against another levee & retrieved the duck to hand. I am going to keep her.

    I had the tools to handle the problem. When I leave the driveway in my truck you can bet there is a jack & a lug wrench under the back seat. To buy a new truck because it has a flat tire is advice I will quickly dismiss. I won't switch breeds because of one single issue either. I love Chessies, Goldens, Boykins, Tollers, Poodles, Drathaars & almost every other breed of working dogs. If I had the time, I would own a lot of these breeds. Because space, time & money is limited, I will stick to the Lab as they best fit my needs.

    My advice to the original poster is to not hunt the dog this year. Wait til this summer & as previously mentioned have someone walk you through a solid water force program. Next year, you will have the tool needed to address the issue.
    Mark Land

  9. #59
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I agree with you. Based on his dog's apparent birdyness and drive to retrieve up to that point, the OP extrapolated those traits to water and didn't want to hear anything contrary. I haven't read all the post since I posted a reply early on, so don't know if he's returned to the thread with any additional information, but it seems like many are posting advise he didn't want to hear. My point was that it could be a number of things including a lack of heart in the dog, but with winter coming on hard, now wasn't the time to force the dog into cold water. Now if we knew the dog had advanced through a proper training program including FF, FTP and water force, we would know the tools were built in and we could deal with it accordingly, but I didn't get that impression. Hence my advise to skip duck hunting this season and deal with it in a proper manner over Spring, and Summer.

    Keith's idea of running some simple retrieves across shallow, running water isn't a bad one, but again I would leave the force out of it unless and until we know for sure the dog understands force and how to handle it.
    I agree, I just gave him a quick way to find out for him self. in a controlled environment.

    Step one, No pressure if the dog responds well move to step two. If the dog breaks down in step two, he will see the contrast vary quickly. Stop there, wait until summer and go back over the force to water part of his program.

    The way I read the OP, he felt, that there was no problem with his program. So it must be environmental Right. Sometimes thing have to be learned on our own.

    Keith

  10. #60
    Senior Member BlaineT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishduck View Post
    My advice to the original poster is to not hunt the dog this year. Wait til this summer & as previously mentioned have someone walk you through a solid water force program. Next year, you will have the tool needed to address the issue.
    Maybe the best advice on the thread.
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