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Thread: Dog will no retreive in cold water?

  1. #81
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampbilly View Post
    Right Pete

    Sometimes the dog might have to enter through ice on shore, swim, exit out and re-enter...and if he has a problem with it, could wind up a long day, (or a short one).
    Always do try to "handle smarter" and not handle harder, and encourage the dog to do the same by "retrieving smarter" and not retrieving harder, by SENDING the dog (when possible) thru the same area he entered on previous retrieves, and returning back thru the same place by breaking up an area in front of the blind, establishing "the line". Not so much to accomodate the dog, but to make life a little easier.

    I like straight lines both out and returning, and if the standard is maintained all the time, it ain't going to kill the standard by allowing the dog to make some of it's own, (right) decisions in some of these situations, even if the dog is handled and allowed to "cheat" the ice.

    Really no different than teaching pup to return to the "dog ladder" when huntin' from a floating blind.
    I hold standards for some things such as sitting steady and taking cast during hunting season, but I relax some others. Running a bank is one I let slide, especially in late season cold weather hunting. I hunt the Flathead River a lot, this time of year it is half ice with very cold water. I actually prefer my dog to run down the shore, then square into the water, then straight back to shore and run back on land as fast as possible. I prefer this for two reasons; 1) it saves wear and tear on my dog in cold icy conditions, 2) it's much faster and less likely to flair birds that could come in at any time. If this relaxation created bad habits that carried over into field trials I would change my method, but it doesn't. The dogs being as situational as they are, know when they can do this and when they can't.

    John
    Last edited by John Robinson; 11-27-2013 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #82
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    While hunting, I pretty much let them take their path. Even though I hunt the same areas most of the time, I really do not know whats out there and feel, that they know better then I do. That being said, if I know of a hazard I will keep them away.

    Like yesterday, we where pheasant hunting along side a levy road. On the other side was a slue with a jagged rocky incline down to the water ( A real leg breaker) I would make sure If she went that way I would turn her.

    Keith

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by huntinman View Post
    Contrary, to anything posted by the other post... There is no POTUS crap involved. You and the person who posted that are both misinformed.

    PS... If you can find the post from the last month or so where I have said anything to MJH on PP, lets see it.
    Billy along with a Civics lesson and a media bias lesson it is clear that you could use a reading comprehension lesson.This is a training thread Billy, not the POTUS septic tank. Seems like whenever I point out something that you posted on POTUS is ridiculously inaccurate, that you get your panties in a wad and make unrelated personal attacks on me here on the main forum.
    This is a training thread Billy, not the POTUS septic tank. Seems like whenever I point out something that you posted on POTUS is ridiculously inaccurate, that you get your panties in a wad and make unrelated personal attacks on me here on the main forum.

    Nobody said that you exchange barbs with me on POTUS. What you do is get schooled on POTUS on a subject. You know you have been schooled, so you take your hurt feelings to the main forum and launch an attack on me that is 100% completely personal, unrelated and non helpful or responsive to the OP's question Additionally it disrupts the decorum on the main forum. POTUS has less decorum & was designed to keep the main forum clean of petty personal arguments.


    In the interest of decorum I have two suggestions for you. The best solution would be for you to educate yourself; so as to prevent you from espousing foolish factually incorrect blather. Then nobody will be able to embarrass you for your foolishness; additionally you will be better informed


    The second suggestion for you would be the next time you post something ridiculously incorrect on POTUS that you keep your hurt feelings and personal attacks confined to the POTUS echo chamber.
    Now Have a Happy Thanksgiving
    Cheers

  4. #84
    Senior Member John Robinson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjh345 View Post
    Billy along with a Civics lesson and a media bias lesson it is clear that you could use a reading comprehension lesson.This is a training thread Billy, not the POTUS septic tank. Seems like whenever I point out something that you posted on POTUS is ridiculously inaccurate, that you get your panties in a wad and make unrelated personal attacks on me here on the main forum.
    This is a training thread Billy, not the POTUS septic tank. Seems like whenever I point out something that you posted on POTUS is ridiculously inaccurate, that you get your panties in a wad and make unrelated personal attacks on me here on the main forum.

    Nobody said that you exchange barbs with me on POTUS. What you do is get schooled on POTUS on a subject. You know you have been schooled, so you take your hurt feelings to the main forum and launch an attack on me that is 100% completely personal, unrelated and non helpful or responsive to the OP's question Additionally it disrupts the decorum on the main forum. POTUS has less decorum & was designed to keep the main forum clean of petty personal arguments.


    In the interest of decorum I have two suggestions for you. The best solution would be for you to educate yourself; so as to prevent you from espousing foolish factually incorrect blather. Then nobody will be able to embarrass you for your foolishness; additionally you will be better informed


    The second suggestion for you would be the next time you post something ridiculously incorrect on POTUS that you keep your hurt feelings and personal attacks confined to the POTUS echo chamber.
    Now Have a Happy Thanksgiving
    Cheers
    Yet you bring it up again, seems like neither of you can just drop it. I have no idea what goes on over on the POTUS site, I can't imagine it would be helpful to anyone, but I could be wrong.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Bridget Bodine's Avatar
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    GET OFF This thread with the BS , YOU MARC are being an azz
    BB
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  6. #86
    Senior Member Hunt'EmUp's Avatar
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    Welp 8 pages of posting and I've been pulled in. First off Pup's only 15mt old, we do not know where he is in training (most likely not- through water force), but one would bet that this is his first hunting season, first season dealing with cold water, training on the job, and he has a lot of stuff to pick up and learn. As such I wouldn't consider it a big deal should a pup balk at entering cold water, or not quite be up to standard that we would expect of a veteran hunting dog. The OP forced him into the water; the dog picked up the bird, the dog will most likely go in and pick up the bird next time, or the OP will force him in again. Plus side the OP had some tools to work with and didn't have to get out his rock bag. Dog has bird drive, a bit more hunt conditioning and hunting experience and the dog will be going in and picking up birds on his own. Are there things to work on during the off-season? Sure but isn't that the purpose of a dog first season (to figure out what those things are)? Mountain-Mole Hill, hunt your dog, do what's needed to get your birds, examine what issues might need to be addressed after hunting season is over (if they don't solve themselves). And don't discount those things that will be learned through actually hunting.
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  7. #87
    Senior Member jd6400's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampbilly View Post
    Respectfully-
    Would definately agree with mj345 and HNTFSH on using collar pressure on a young dog in cold water.

    Take a look back at Nicks' Chessie pics. I'm a poor man, but would bet my next paycheck that Thor hasn't seen any collar pressure in a long, (long), time. Based on my own huntin' experiences with dogs in cold arse water for me,.. it's really more about how a dog "feels" about retrieving in general, and the intimate relationship the dog has, (or doesn't have) with birds.

    Have seen properly FF'd dogs scarf at cold water as if it wasn't written in the "contract". Particularly after having the luxury of nice, warm water to train in most of the time, and then a lapse in training as huntin' season nears. THEN the dog is suddenly asked to retrieve in water that it's just not acclimated to.
    Best thing I could suggest is to keep a dog active in water from Sept. thru fall and into winter as water temps continue to drop.

    Will never believe that FF' creates a lifelong passion for a dog to "like" cold water.
    Even though 90 percent sure Nick did water force...I'll bet you any amount of money that he never had to force him in ice....got 2 Thor pups here right now and will gaurentee tomorrow they will do what they have to to get a bird.It s heart and desire pure and simple.now if you got one that won't get in the liquid then I see no other recourse than to force.I personally want to see them do it on their own because they WANT to...not because they HAvE too.Took me a few years but got what I Want now.Jim
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  8. #88
    Senior Member truthseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt'EmUp View Post
    Welp 8 pages of posting and I've been pulled in. First off Pup's only 15mt old, we do not know where he is in training (most likely not- through water force), but one would bet that this is his first hunting season, first season dealing with cold water, training on the job, and he has a lot of stuff to pick up and learn. As such I wouldn't consider it a big deal should a pup balk at entering cold water, or not quite be up to standard that we would expect of a veteran hunting dog. The OP forced him into the water; the dog picked up the bird, the dog will most likely go in and pick up the bird next time, or the OP will force him in again. Plus side the OP had some tools to work with and didn't have to get out his rock bag. Dog has bird drive, a bit more hunt conditioning and hunting experience and the dog will be going in and picking up birds on his own. Are there things to work on during the off-season? Sure but isn't that the purpose of a dog first season (to figure out what those things are)? Mountain-Mole Hill, hunt your dog, do what's needed to get your birds, examine what issues might need to be addressed after hunting season is over (if they don't solve themselves). And don't discount those things that will be learned through actually hunting.
    This is what I use to.

    I just sent one of my dogs home, the last week of October and just told the owner go hunt him. He has been force to water, but not cold water.

    The owner ask me what should I do? I said this is your second dog with me, you what to do. I need to know what he has and what I need to work on when I pick him up in January, to get ready for his HT.

    Keith

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd6400 View Post
    Even though 90 percent sure Nick did water force...I'll bet you any amount of money that he never had to force him in ice....got 2 Thor pups here right now and will gaurentee tomorrow they will do what they have to to get a bird.It s heart and desire pure and simple.now if you got one that won't get in the liquid then I see no other recourse than to force.I personally want to see them do it on their own because they WANT to...not because they HAvE too.Took me a few years but got what I Want now.Jim
    Jim- sounds like you've got yourself a couple nice pups!
    I'd agree ole Thor was more than likely water forced, and no need to bet on the latter! Easy to establish how Thor "feels" about retrieving, and would believe that an important part of that eagerness was established long before the first ear pinch.
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Robinson View Post
    I hold standards for some things such as sitting steady and taking cast during hunting season, but I relax some others. Running a bank is one I let slide, especially in late season cold weather hunting. I hunt the Flathead River a lot, this time of year it is half ice with very cold water. I actually prefer my dog to run down the shore, then square into the water, then straight back to shore and run back on land as fast as possible. I prefer this for two reasons; 1) it saves wear and tear on my dog in cold icy conditions, 2) it's much faster and less likely to flair birds that could come in at any time. If this relaxation created bad habits that carried over into field trials I would change my method, but it doesn't. The dogs being as situational as they are, know when they can do this and when they can't.

    John
    I worried myself to death about losing the standard thru hunting, but came to realize as you've pointed out John, that if maintained otherwise it won't upset the apple cart.

    (But still have reservations about hunting situations and the effects of,.. real close to a HT)
    Dawgs are like Savings Accounts-
    You only get out of 'em what you put into 'em.

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